Kicking the legs? Allow stomps then maybe it would make sense. Fighter standing up has a choice if he wants to engage even if his opponent is chasing him on his butt.
Why stand up fighters on their back? His opponent could just kick his legs until the round is over. Why make a strategy illegal simply because it's effective?
Sijan - NOBODY is saying that the standing fighter should HAVE to go to the ground to fight the butt-scooting fighter.
I said it...
Sijan - Don't think this is trolling. and I agree.
i agree as well...
i actually did not like the ref standing Aoki up so fast..
let him chase gilbert down and if gilbert stays away.. then stand him up.
Not to mention that Melendez landed some of his best shots as Yamasaki was stepping in to get Aoki to stand up.
Sijan - Unbelievable idiocy on this thread. NOBODY is saying that the standing fighter should HAVE to go to the ground to fight the butt-scooting fighter. They're just saying he should have to engage by not fleeing or being "rescued" by the ref. Leg kicks, or punches from standing, would be the ways that most strikers typically engage a downed opponent if they don't want to grapple.
Seriously, if top MMA strikers can't defend against butt scooting opponents (a la Aoki chasing Melendez while butt scooting), then that should be a legitimate strategy for grapplers. Why make a strategy illegal simply because it's effective?
But it's only effective because of a silly rule that prevents the standing fighter from properly defending himself. Where it was legal (Brazil), Chute Boxe developed a very sophisticated system for punishing people that did it.
GladiatorGannon -
But it's only effective because of a silly rule that prevents the standing fighter from properly defending himself. Where it was legal (Brazil), Chute Boxe developed a very sophisticated system for punishing people that did it.
Japan too, since you could kick to the head.
I still think punching the face of a downed opponent is a viable option.
homo sapient - this is mma, not kickboxing, if somebody wants to advance towards you on their ass it's your job to figure out how to attack them, not run away
homo sapient- Correct, except the rules have neutered the most effective, logical, and best way to attack them (kicking them slam in the face)
Slowshot - well, that's idiotic^^.LOL @ you calling someone else idiotic.
He shouldnt have to get in his guard, but if he can effectively initiate takedowns by butt scooting, and you're not a good enough kicker to do anything about it, that's YOUR fault.
How exactly do you get a takedown from buttscooting? You have to be standing to get a takedown unless you shoot for a double. A takedown from guard is called a sweep. Even in BJJ tournaments the ref will stand you up if you sit down with out contact. Pulling guard is one thing, but dropping to your ass when you haven't even been touched is just plain stupid
jkennedy - No! This is MMA not "How to fight a butt scooter" if Aoki or someone else wants to fight on the ground it is up to them to bring the fight there. By this logic a 'muay thai' fighter would be allowed to signal to the ref that he wanted to stand up whenever he wanted to.I really love the way this is put, although I kind of agree with the OP.
How about someone crawling towards their opponent or knee-walking? Do you stop the fight and make them stand also? Maybe their strategy is to attack that way so they can't get kicked in the face. What's wrong with that?
All these quick stand-ups for no solid reason are, in some cases, setting MMA back to kick-boxing in the 1980's.
Alco Hauler - LMAO @ the butt scooting this would create. Dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard.
I was positive you were just fishing for arguments - now I just think you are retarded.
What if both fighters flop to their backs as soon as the fight starts. Do they then have to approach each other via butt scoot and play footsies?
VTFU! You want the fight on the ground then fucking take it there.
Uchi - Allow Soccer Kicks and I'll agree.
asscobra -Actually, fair point.Slowshot - well, that's idiotic^^.LOL @ you calling someone else idiotic.
He shouldnt have to get in his guard, but if he can effectively initiate takedowns by butt scooting, and you're not a good enough kicker to do anything about it, that's YOUR fault.
How exactly do you get a takedown from buttscooting? You have to be standing to get a takedown unless you shoot for a double. A takedown from guard is called a sweep. Even in BJJ tournaments the ref will stand you up if you sit down with out contact. Pulling guard is one thing, but dropping to your ass when you haven't even been touched is just plain stupid
I used the wrong wording.
It would be more of initiating a guard pull than initiating a takedown. If he scooted to Melendez, and grabbed a hold, and pulled guard, good for him.
As I said, though, if he's going to be able to try this, melendez has to be able to kick him in the head for it.
There should be more time for the guy on his back if he is perusing his opponent like Aoki was... but let's be honest, who, other than Aoki, would even utilize such allowances?
Then again, Aoki avoiding the stand-up is no different than Gil avoiding the groundwork. Why is Aoki being asked to stand up in an MMA fight while Gil would never be asked to go to the ground? Is there something in the rules that dictates where the fight happens?
Where do you draw the line? Isn't a fighter that drops to a knee to avoid getting kneed or kicked in the head committing an even worse offense? Should he be asked to stand up to continue taking knees and kicks to the head? I've never seen it.
Can anyone clear up these double-standards?
mdmrules - There should be more time for the guy on his back if he is perusing his opponent like Aoki was... but let's be honest, who, other than Aoki, would even utilize such allowances?All of this is a result of the artificial constraint revolving kicking a downed opponent.
Then again, Aoki avoiding the stand-up is no different than Gil avoiding the groundwork. Why is Aoki being asked to stand up in an MMA fight while Gil would never be asked to go to the ground? Is there something in the rules that dictates where the fight happens?
Where do you draw the line? Isn't a fighter that drops to a knee to avoid getting kneed or kicked in the head committing an even worse offense? Should he be asked to stand up to continue taking knees and kicks to the head? I've never seen it.
Can anyone clear up these double-standards?
Remove this rule, and all of this nonsense goes away.
They just honestly need to get rid of the rule where the fighters are stood up EVER. Let the fight go. The referee is interfering with the outcome when they do this.
If a guy butt scoots a tremendous amount he will lose the judges decision, and also be mocked by the fans. If that isn't enough incentive to get them to stop then they won't every be a champion anyway, and they most likely will never stop doing it. The promotions can drop those guys and find someone else.
By standing the fighters up you are directly affecting the fight for no reason other then you the referee think in your opinion there is not enough action. It's either a sport or entertainment. If the sport on it's own is not entertaining enough for people then it will die.
Mushroom Slap - SOCCER KICKS AND HEAD STOMPS WOULD ELIMINATE THIS BITCH SHIT
i'm sure Anderson Silva vs. Thailes Leites would have looked much different with this in place. until then, butt scooter should be stood up and if continuing, smacked by the ref across the face.
saerbarnet - lol @ forcing someone to engage a downed opponent. If someone wants the fight on the ground they'll have to take it there themselves. Not just put their ass on the mat and force the other guy to attack him.+1
Even though this is a piss poor troll attempt
I'd like to see this somewhere where soccor kicks are alowed.
Agree with the OP.It should be legal, but it's a stupid strategy.
Melendez showed that you can just punch the butt scooter in the face, because he typically has his hands on the ground.