jkennedy -IP - All these quick stand-ups for no solid reason are, in some cases, setting MMA back to kick-boxing in the 1980's.
What quick stand ups? Aoki would get a few moments to scoot across the ring and it was painfully clear that Melendez would just avoid him. Mario Yam stands them up and Aoki goes back to the same plan when he gets knocked down.
jkennedy - What about my point in reference to crawling towards an opponent? Knee-walking? Duck-walking?
Bullshit. If that's the case they should legalize knees and kicks to the head of a downed opponent. A standing fighter shouldn't be forced into his opponents guard through rule manipulation, if the ground fighter can't get a take down then he should butt scoot at his own risk. Just because he can sit on his ass doesn't mean the other fighter should be forced to the ground.
So long as soccer kicks and knees to the ground are illegal butt scooting should be a stand up as it's an attempt to force an opponent to the ground without any form of take down, just a manipulation of the rules. If a ground fighter isn't good enough to get the takedown then someone shouldn't be forced into their game because they want to sit on their ass. If you want butt scooting like in japan, then it needs to be in japanese rules, American rules are not suited for butt scooting.
The japanophiles need to realize their golden boy is one dimensional and outside of that one amazing skill has nothing to offer top fighters. No amount of complaining about perceived slights and how he isn't being catered to enough will change that.
If you can't take them down through skill, then you don't get to abuse the rules in regards to kicking a downed opponent. Stomps and soccer kicks or nothing.
He's not saying they should have to go to the ground but to engage them.
I dont agree with this.
Standing fighter should be able to engage if he wants to. But since that situation can lead to nowhere and eats up time, the current practise of standing fighter option should continue. He wants to engage, he can. If he's thru with it, stop the action and stand scooted fighter up.
We shouldnt really need to discuss this. Its fine as it is.
butt scooting would escalate to a point where people stop watching MMA.
Uchi - Allow Soccer Kicks and I'll agree.
Jebus Christ - They just honestly need to get rid of the rule where the fighters are stood up EVER. Let the fight go. The referee is interfering with the outcome when they do this.
If a guy butt scoots a tremendous amount he will lose the judges decision, and also be mocked by the fans. If that isn't enough incentive to get them to stop then they won't every be a champion anyway, and they most likely will never stop doing it. The promotions can drop those guys and find someone else.
By standing the fighters up you are directly affecting the fight for no reason other then you the referee think in your opinion there is not enough action. It's either a sport or entertainment. If the sport on it's own is not entertaining enough for people then it will die.
Even tho I agree 100% that running from the guard to stand back up is most certainly fleeing the fight...
... that being said its part of the skill of the guard that you must be able to keep someone in it!
Rules are fine as is IMO
just get in his guard - LMAO
It's a fairness of rules argument:
If there is a stalemate/no action on the ground referees stand up the fighters.
Why then if there is a stalemate/no action on their feet do referees not make the fighters go to the ground?
Why is a grappler forced to physically take the fight to the ground and a stand up fighter not forced to physically make it standing?
MAMAOmaha - It's a fairness of rules argument:Because humans walk on two legs. Thats where fights start.
If there is a stalemate/no action on the ground referees stand up the fighters.
Why then if there is a stalemate/no action on their feet do referees not make the fighters go to the ground?
Why is a grappler forced to physically take the fight to the ground and a stand up fighter not forced to physically make it standing?
MAMAOmaha - It's a fairness of rules argument:You make a good point but how would you figure out some sort of equal ground position where one person doesn't have an advantage over the other one? Your point has some validity to it but I beleive the practicality of this issue is a major disadvantage to it.
If there is a stalemate/no action on the ground referees stand up the fighters.
Why then if there is a stalemate/no action on their feet do referees not make the fighters go to the ground?
Why is a grappler forced to physically take the fight to the ground and a stand up fighter not forced to physically make it standing?
soccer kicks, stomps ftw
jkennedy - @IP
1. Mario fucked that one up for sure but it was one time out of dozens of times when Aoki wanted to butt scoot.
2. I seem to remember someone doing that either at an event I was at or an older UFC. The thing is you're still mobile at that point and can go up or down depending on what happens. I also seem to remember the duck walker being on the receiving end of a vicious knee that broke his nose.
PrettyBoy -MAMAOmaha - It's a fairness of rules argument:Because humans walk on two legs. Thats where fights start.
If there is a stalemate/no action on the ground referees stand up the fighters.
Why then if there is a stalemate/no action on their feet do referees not make the fighters go to the ground?
Why is a grappler forced to physically take the fight to the ground and a stand up fighter not forced to physically make it standing?
Not to mention the rules change once a fighter hits the ground. A striker cant utilize half of his offense. A grapler is free to grab and wrestle with an opponent regardless of where the fight is taking place.
Again if a fighter is not engaging an opponent when standing he should have a point deducted...then DQ'ed if he continues to do so. If you want to force engagment at all times even when an opponent is grounded then allow him to use all his tools so grapplers do not get an advantage of engaging a striker without having to worry about half of his weapons.
If they allowed kicks, stomps and knees to the head of a grounded fighter grapplers would never try to butt scoot anyway.