lockon - "In the last 10 years, name me one fighter that Floyd has fought that was both elite and in his prime.
Hatton is the only debatable answer.
It's much easier to do the same with Pacquiao."
Please, do the same for Pacquiao. I might've misunderstood, but I'd really like to see the list of boxers you thought Pacquiao defeated in the last decade who were "elite or in their primes" when the bout occurred. This should be good.
for starters Barrera, JM Marquez, Eric Morales, TimBradley
Lol, yeah, this
Lol, no. See how that works?
Barrera/Morales 1 took a lot out of both of them and he dropped one to a shopworn Morales before beating him twice. If ThatKickDidn'tHurt wants to call Hatton's status at the time of his loss to Mayweather "debatable" then anyone can do the same for Pacquiao's wins just as easily.
It's also funny that you can mention the Bradley fight, with an asterisk, because it serves to further your claim. You don't mention how controversial his bouts with Marquez were, however. I realize their first 3 fights were a lot more evenly contested than the Bradley one, so let's not get into that, but it's disingenuous to just list Marquez as a win on Pac's resume because of the official win status, while looking the other way for Bradley, even if you do put an asterisk.
PTM seems rather knowledgeable and I'm not trying to discredit Pacquiao but it's absolutely ridiculous to criticize Floyd so much when two of Pac's biggest opponents (ODLH, Hatton) had already lost to Floyd prior to fighting Manny. Not even going to get into the whole catch weight business with Pacquiao, although I'm not stupid enough to make it seem as though Floy'd not guilty of doing that either.
"You could also make the argument for Cotto"
You could make an argument for just about anything. Cotto did look good in the second bout with Marg, still, it's pretty commonly believed he wasn't the same fighter after the beating he took in their first match. Also was a catchweight bout.
"Especially since he looked amazing in his last fight. Looked as good as he ever did. Would have loved to have seen THAT version of Cotto against Floyd."
His performance in this one might have had a lot to do with Margarito being physically fucked after getting eviscerated by Pacquiao? I mean it did retire him.
Anyway, cheers PTM
Sweet essay bro. 10/10. I didn't read it or anything, but it looked good.
Sweet hypocrisy bro. I've always had a lot of respect for you as a poster on this place so that's unfortunate to see, sorry you have a short attention span? As far as I was aware you self admittedly have only been following the sport of boxing for a short while yet you fancy yourself some sort of authority on the context of hypothetical fights which could've taken place years ago.
Keep spamming the thread with your own opinion while being snarky to those who respond to them with valid points.
KnockoutThoughts - All this is bs. Floyd has ducked top competition ever since Corrales. Every step since has been calculated risk and fighting slow fighters. If he fought Pac it would present 5 things Floyd doesn't want: speed, volume, power, experience, and aggression. Boxing has always been about fighting the best. So what Pac got knocked out by a jacked up Marquez in their 4th go around. Last I checked Mayweather has never given anyone as much as a second chance! Castillo being the exception, but we all know why that happened. At the end of the day Floyd will avoid this fight like his record depends on it. See past the smoke and mirrors, If Floyd was confident he could win this fight he would taken the greatest payday ever in history a long time ago. The rest is excuses. Get in the ring coward.
Ditto.
You're both retarded. I'm not a deluded Floyd fanboy but how has he not fought or ducked that was top competition besides Pacquiao and Sergio Martinez? He's a cherry picker without a doubt but you can't say he's avoided the best that's available. Fighting champions at 147lbs and 154lbs
Plus Paul Williams, Prime Cotto, and Margarito. Likely would've beaten them all, too.
Arum avoided him with saying cotto wasn't ready and margarito was. Ore dangerous than Judah who was the recognized champ at the time and baldomir who took a belt from Judah? Mosley was the champ, Vernon forest beat him, mayorga beat forest, spinks beat mayorga, and Judah beat spinks. That was a the man that beat the man that beat the man scenario. Where was margarito in that mix?
lockon - Sweet hypocrisy bro. I've always had a lot of respect for you as a poster on this place so that's unfortunate to see, sorry you have a short attention span? As far as I was aware you self admittedly have only been following the sport of boxing for a short while yet you fancy yourself some sort of authority on the context of hypothetical fights which could've taken place years ago.
Keep spamming the thread with your own opinion while being snarky to those who respond to them with valid points.
Yes, I am absolutely a novice when it comes to boxing and would never pretend otherwise.. I rarely watch a non-Mayweather/Pacquiao fight. I am not, however, a novice when it comes to Mayweather PPVs. I bought Mosley, Ortiz, Cotto, Guerrero, and Canelo despite the exorbitant prices and questionable opposition.
Not to be a douche or anything, but I think that gives me license to complain about this fraudulent fuck's antics, especially when he uses a public forum like twitter to mock a fighter that I prefer to him, and really want to see him fight, only to see the fight get continually held up due to his gigantic ego and petty feud with Bob Arum.
I find the guy detestable in pretty much every way, and he was the only person I was directing the snark at, at least initially.
couple of things before I leave this thread because well.... these pac x floyd threads are beyond old already and like some posters already mentioned it was a GREAT year for boxing and I'm more interested in those discussions.
"His performance in this one might have had a lot to do with Margarito being physically fucked after getting eviscerated by Pacquiao? I mean it did retire him."
I was referring to the Cotto that showed up and decimated Delvin Rodriguez a couple of months ago. Looked like the worldbeater Cotto from his prime.
As far as the Bradly/Marquez * not being disengenous. I have Pac winning the first 2. With the first fight being clear cut. jmho.
I don't consider ODLH/Hatton to be Pac's best wins. Even though they are the highest profile.
Baldomir? Lol Baldomir with 16 L's and 6 draws? Further proves Mayweather is extremely willing to jump in at the most opportune times. Put a legitimate challenger behind the belt and we have a million excuses.
lockon - Sweet hypocrisy bro. I've always had a lot of respect for you as a poster on this place so that's unfortunate to see, sorry you have a short attention span? As far as I was aware you self admittedly have only been following the sport of boxing for a short while yet you fancy yourself some sort of authority on the context of hypothetical fights which could've taken place years ago.
Keep spamming the thread with your own opinion while being snarky to those who respond to them with valid points.
Yes, I am absolutely a novice when it comes to boxing and would never pretend otherwise.. I rarely watch a non-Mayweather/Pacquiao fight. I am not, however, a novice when it comes to Mayweather PPVs. I bought Mosley, Ortiz, Cotto, Guerrero, and Canelo despite the exorbitant prices and questionable opposition.
Not to be a douche or anything, but I think that gives me license to complain about this fraudulent fuck's antics, especially when he uses a public forum like twitter to mock a fighter that I prefer to him, and really want to see him fight, only to see the fight get continually held up due to his gigantic ego and petty feud with Bob Arum.
I find the guy detestable in pretty much every way, and he was the only person I was directing the snark at, at least initially.
Oh, I understand. I also kind of had forgotten the original subject matter of this thread after reading my way through the pages. It's definitely retarded of him to post that and I do share the opinion that he is/was obviously scared/concerned about taking the fight with Pac, just like I think Pac is a bit too.
My bad for coming off as a dick. I just believe they share similarities when choosing opponents and have equally put forward effort to avoid each other. Floyd's definitely been worse about it and I've enjoyed Mann'y career a hell of a lot more than his. It's just very easy to shoot a few of the same criticisms at either guy.
KnockoutThoughts - All this is bs. Floyd has ducked top competition ever since Corrales. Every step since has been calculated risk and fighting slow fighters. If he fought Pac it would present 5 things Floyd doesn't want: speed, volume, power, experience, and aggression. Boxing has always been about fighting the best. So what Pac got knocked out by a jacked up Marquez in their 4th go around. Last I checked Mayweather has never given anyone as much as a second chance! Castillo being the exception, but we all know why that happened. At the end of the day Floyd will avoid this fight like his record depends on it. See past the smoke and mirrors, If Floyd was confident he could win this fight he would taken the greatest payday ever in history a long time ago. The rest is excuses. Get in the ring coward.
Ditto.
You're both retarded. I'm not a deluded Floyd fanboy but how has he not fought or ducked that was top competition besides Pacquiao and Sergio Martinez? He's a cherry picker without a doubt but you can't say he's avoided the best that's available. Fighting champions at 147lbs and 154lbs
Plus Paul Williams, Prime Cotto, and Margarito. Likely would've beaten them all, too.
Arum avoided him with saying cotto wasn't ready and margarito was. Ore dangerous than Judah who was the recognized champ at the time and baldomir who took a belt from Judah? Mosley was the champ, Vernon forest beat him, mayorga beat forest, spinks beat mayorga, and Judah beat spinks. That was a the man that beat the man that beat the man scenario. Where was margarito in that mix?
What, so Floyd is just the victim in this entire situation?
The poor guy just couldn't find anyone to fight him. The logic behind both the Judah and Baldomir fights was specious at best - the Judah fight went ahead despite the loss to Baldomir, and it would appear that Mayweather fought Baldomir after that just because it afforded him to face a very beatable opponent while still fighting for a belt, and the logic behind the matchmaking was still somewhat tenable because Baldomir beat Judah and was a welterweight titleholder, thereby making him a credible opponent for Mayweather. It all looks good superficially, when in fact I believe the exact opposite was true.
Moreover, there was always some sort of impediment in the way of the Pacquiao, Marg and Cotto fights that Mayweather and his fans can point to as his reason for not fighting them. How come the same isn't true for some of the absolute cans he fought? There wasn't anything stopping those fights from happening.
There's also completely overt hypocrisy in his matchmaking logic. He fights Guerrero because he's the mandatory to his WW title, yet when the WBC names Pac the number 1 contender to Floyd's WW belt, he goes on to say that he 'doesn't need a belt; the belt doesn't make me'
I could give you the Marquez/Bradley thing and I see your point there. My bad for confusing the Rodriguez fight for Marg 2, must've read that wrong. I see both of your points regarding Pacquiao having a better resume of guys who were elite or in their prime at the time of the fight. Definitely not something I completely disagree with, just thought, like everything with Pac/Floyd, it could be argued.
KnockoutThoughts - All this is bs. Floyd has ducked top competition ever since Corrales. Every step since has been calculated risk and fighting slow fighters. If he fought Pac it would present 5 things Floyd doesn't want: speed, volume, power, experience, and aggression. Boxing has always been about fighting the best. So what Pac got knocked out by a jacked up Marquez in their 4th go around. Last I checked Mayweather has never given anyone as much as a second chance! Castillo being the exception, but we all know why that happened. At the end of the day Floyd will avoid this fight like his record depends on it. See past the smoke and mirrors, If Floyd was confident he could win this fight he would taken the greatest payday ever in history a long time ago. The rest is excuses. Get in the ring coward.
Ditto.
You're both retarded. I'm not a deluded Floyd fanboy but how has he not fought or ducked that was top competition besides Pacquiao and Sergio Martinez? He's a cherry picker without a doubt but you can't say he's avoided the best that's available. Fighting champions at 147lbs and 154lbs
Plus Paul Williams, Prime Cotto, and Margarito. Likely would've beaten them all, too.
Arum avoided him with saying cotto wasn't ready and margarito was. Ore dangerous than Judah who was the recognized champ at the time and baldomir who took a belt from Judah? Mosley was the champ, Vernon forest beat him, mayorga beat forest, spinks beat mayorga, and Judah beat spinks. That was a the man that beat the man that beat the man scenario. Where was margarito in that mix?
What, so Floyd is just the victim in this entire situation?
The poor guy just couldn't find anyone to fight him. The logic behind both the Judah and Baldomir fights was specious at best - the Judah fight went ahead despite the loss to Baldomir, and it would appear that Mayweather fought Baldomir after that just because it afforded him to face a very beatable opponent while still fighting for a belt, and the logic behind the matchmaking was still somewhat tenable because Baldomir beat Judah and was a welterweight titleholder, thereby making him a credible opponent for Mayweather. It all looks good superficially, when in fact I believe the exact opposite was true.
Moreover, there was always some sort of impediment in the way of the Pacquiao, Marg and Cotto fights that Mayweather and his fans can point to as his reason for not fighting them. How come the same isn't true for some of the absolute cans he fought? There wasn't anything stopping those fights from happening.
There's also completely overt hypocrisy in his matchmaking logic. He fights Guerrero because he's the mandatory to his WW title, yet when the WBC names Pac the number 1 contender to Floyd's WW belt, he goes on to say that he 'doesn't need a belt; the belt doesn't make me'
lockon - Sweet hypocrisy bro. I've always had a lot of respect for you as a poster on this place so that's unfortunate to see, sorry you have a short attention span? As far as I was aware you self admittedly have only been following the sport of boxing for a short while yet you fancy yourself some sort of authority on the context of hypothetical fights which could've taken place years ago.
Keep spamming the thread with your own opinion while being snarky to those who respond to them with valid points.
Yes, I am absolutely a novice when it comes to boxing and would never pretend otherwise.. I rarely watch a non-Mayweather/Pacquiao fight. I am not, however, a novice when it comes to Mayweather PPVs. I bought Mosley, Ortiz, Cotto, Guerrero, and Canelo despite the exorbitant prices and questionable opposition.
Not to be a douche or anything, but I think that gives me license to complain about this fraudulent fuck's antics, especially when he uses a public forum like twitter to mock a fighter that I prefer to him, and really want to see him fight, only to see the fight get continually held up due to his gigantic ego and petty feud with Bob Arum.
I find the guy detestable in pretty much every way, and he was the only person I was directing the snark at, at least initially.
Oh, I understand. I also kind of had forgotten the original subject matter of this thread after reading my way through the pages. It's definitely retarded of him to post that and I do share the opinion that he is/was obviously scared/concerned about taking the fight with Pac, just like I think Pac is a bit too.
My bad for coming off as a dick. I just believe they share similarities when choosing opponents and have equally put forward effort to avoid each other. Floyd's definitely been worse about it and I've enjoyed Mann'y career a hell of a lot more than his. It's just very easy to shoot a few of the same criticisms at either guy.
Cheers.
I was the douche here, and a complete hypocrite. I won't try to conceal my contempt for Floyd - I can't stand the guy. What I was doing (and quite frankly, what I will continue to do) is fighter bashing. The guy just rubs me the wrong way, but you brought up valid points that I swept aside without even addressing with that douchey 'didn't read' comment. I apologize for that.
To be totally honest, I don't dislike him for ducking Marg, Cotto, and Williams, because I barely even knew what boxing was at that point. The only reason I'm even aware that he allegedly ducked them is because I've heard it from other, more knowledgeable boxing fans. Still, it appears that it's an ongoing trend with him, and I think it's fair for me to retroactively criticize him for not fighting those guys (even if I didn't watch the sport at the time) because it seems as if something similar has been happening with Pacquiao for the last 4 years or so.
ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh - Lol, Floyd is such a bitch. Every pro fighter plus 50 have claimed that Floyd is ducking. No other pro athlete in the world gets called a coward more than Floyd. Where there's smoke, there's fire.
Well, no other athlete in the world makes as much as Floyd either. Pay me 1/1000 of what Floyd gets, and you can call me whatever you want.
lockon - Sweet hypocrisy bro. I've always had a lot of respect for you as a poster on this place so that's unfortunate to see, sorry you have a short attention span? As far as I was aware you self admittedly have only been following the sport of boxing for a short while yet you fancy yourself some sort of authority on the context of hypothetical fights which could've taken place years ago.
Keep spamming the thread with your own opinion while being snarky to those who respond to them with valid points.
Yes, I am absolutely a novice when it comes to boxing and would never pretend otherwise.. I rarely watch a non-Mayweather/Pacquiao fight. I am not, however, a novice when it comes to Mayweather PPVs. I bought Mosley, Ortiz, Cotto, Guerrero, and Canelo despite the exorbitant prices and questionable opposition.
Not to be a douche or anything, but I think that gives me license to complain about this fraudulent fuck's antics, especially when he uses a public forum like twitter to mock a fighter that I prefer to him, and really want to see him fight, only to see the fight get continually held up due to his gigantic ego and petty feud with Bob Arum.
I find the guy detestable in pretty much every way, and he was the only person I was directing the snark at, at least initially.
Oh, I understand. I also kind of had forgotten the original subject matter of this thread after reading my way through the pages. It's definitely retarded of him to post that and I do share the opinion that he is/was obviously scared/concerned about taking the fight with Pac, just like I think Pac is a bit too.
My bad for coming off as a dick. I just believe they share similarities when choosing opponents and have equally put forward effort to avoid each other. Floyd's definitely been worse about it and I've enjoyed Mann'y career a hell of a lot more than his. It's just very easy to shoot a few of the same criticisms at either guy.
Cheers.
I was the douche here, and a complete hypocrite. I won't try to conceal my contempt for Floyd - I can't stand the guy. What I was doing (and quite frankly, what I will continue to do) is fighter bashing. The guy just rubs me the wrong way, but you brought up valid points that I swept aside without even addressing with that douchey 'didn't read' comment. I apologize for that.
To be totally honest, I don't dislike him for ducking Marg, Cotto, and Williams, because I barely even knew what boxing was at that point. The only reason I'm even aware that he allegedly ducked them is because I've heard it from other, more knowledgeable boxing fans. Still, it appears that it's an ongoing trend with him, and I think it's fair for me to retroactively criticize him for not fighting those guys (even if I didn't watch the sport at the time) because it seems as if something similar has been happening with Pacquiao for the last 4 years or so.
ThatKickDidntHuroooohhhhhhhh - Lol, Floyd is such a bitch. Every pro fighter plus 50 have claimed that Floyd is ducking. No other pro athlete in the world gets called a coward more than Floyd. Where there's smoke, there's fire.
Well, no other athlete in the world makes as much as Floyd either. Pay me 1/1000 of what Floyd gets, and you can call me whatever you want.
For a trim price of $40,000 USD, you can call the poster 'HeHitsMeBecauseHeLovesMe' a cuntstick, or something else of your choice.
Further proves people are following a brand at this point. Floyd being undefeated has become his brand. This image of being unblemished is what sells. He will protect his brand and image at all costs. Even if it means ducking top competition. That's not what boxing is about. The best fighting the best is the legacy of boxing we want to preserve. Not some ppv WWE illusion competition where preserving a record is more important than the sport itself. Support real boxing.
