Gracie Open 5 FEB 13th!

GI and NO GI. Stay tuned for superfight info!!


Shit, I thought this wasn't until juune or july.

train hard for this one people.

Will they provide tacos outside?

I am cutting 100 to take on mitch........

nevertap.. i think most grapplers would agree that theyd rather have an objective ruling system instead of some hamburger meat and a tortilla any day.

imagine a football, basketball or baseball game where no points werent used.....

i think nevertap has good intentions (promoting subs) but the outcome when there isnt a sub is ineffective.

I know diaz pulled guard but he also passed and controlled for most of the match.... silly

Where's this one being held?

PH high school I think......


good shizzle..!!

Damnit, so far away. I miss living in the Bay Area. :(

I know diaz pulled guard but he also passed and controlled for most of the match.... silly

Its not that he pulled gaurd. Stevenson shot in, and Diaz pulled gaurd. If there were points given in any tournament, that would have counted for a take down in every tournament, EXCEPT certain Gracie tournaments. I did not judge the Diaz fight, but I stand by the judges decision. And the rules of our tournament are clearly explained and defined to all competitors.

BUT TTT, for the Gracie Open! This thread is about them!

Um, at the Gracie Open that counts as a take down. So not ALL gracie tournaments have that rule.

So not ALL gracie tournaments have that rule.

True. Post edited. TTT for gracie open.

that would be a TD even in this tourney!!!! My point was that you pointed out the TD's joe had but didnt mention the passes, control, etc. no worries, i agree that you haev to know the rules when you step on the the subjectivity and leave it to the competitors to settle on the mat. the nevertap system seems to do the opposite......

but didnt mention the passes, control

Actually I did. I didnt mention it in this post. If you look at the other posts, I clearly acknowledge that Nick Diaz passed Stevensons gaurd, swept him, and almost submitted him at one point. I also mention Stevensons takedowns, and submission attempts on Diaz. I never badmouthed Diaz. If that was your impression, you must have been reading someone elses posts. I think Diaz had an awesome fight, and the only reason why he lost was the takedowns. I think if Diaz got by Stevenson, he would have also had a very high chance of defeating Avellan (no offense to Marcos).

Our tournament is unique, by its rules, format, and its prizes. We are allways open for evaluation of both. If fans, and competitors feel that a specific rule or format of our tournament is short, or unfair, we are allways open to suggestions and adaptations in the future. The only way for any consistant tournament to become successfull is to adapt to what the fans, and competitors want. We are open to adaptation, but again, we keep our judges, for the fact that many competitors will stall during fights to win by one takedown, and no other action in the fight.

We hope this didnt damper any relationship with Cesar, Nick Diaz, or any Gracie students. Our hope is to drive all of MMA, and MA to a higher level in the times to come; especially throughout California.

TTT for the Gracie Open!

The problem was that there was no scoring whatsoever. If there was scoring then what was the score at the end of the match? Nick took Stevenson down a few times also. How did this tournie score takedowns, guard passes, sweeps, etc.? Do you get points for submission attempts? How many points exactly do you get for any of these? None of these questions can be answered by your criteria. How would you know if you were winning or losing? Nick told me at the tournament that he only sat to guard because there was no scoring so he decided to try for submissions since there was no official scoring. This made all of the matches a guessing game and left the final outcome anybody's call. How can you say you stick by the judges decision when you can't tell us what the score was or how they were scoring?

Its very simple. Everything doesnt have to have a written down scoring criteria via defined points. For instance, if you look at Pride, the matches are judged overall by takedowns, positioning, attempts to finish the fight, striking, and movement. When Matt Hume judges a fight for pride, he doenst write down 2 points for a takedown, or 2 points for a sweep. The fight is judged "overall" by the action, and domination of the fighters.

Our system works similiarly. We award "virtual" points. The difference between a virtual point, and a written down finalized point, is that if you are up 5-3 with finalized points, you will easily, and likely stall the rest of the fight, so you can win by two. In our tournament, you (the fighter), are not sure if you are up, or down in the judges score cards. This is similiar to Pride, and you see both fighters attempting to get the win, via action.

If I am up 5-3 (and this is most competitors), and I have you in sidemount, I wont let you up and attempt to take you down. I will just stick you there for the remainder of the time, and win 5-3. IMO, this is a weakness in ruling criteria for bjj tournaments. Rorian feels the same way, that is why he favors unlimitted timed matches, with no points, and only submissions. Unfortunately, we wont provide unlimitted time, because the fans will most likely become frustrated with the fight. This is why we have judges decision. If you do not know the EXACT score of a match, you are more inclined to push the action, to win a opposed to if you are up by a couple, you are more likely to stall the fight till the end of timed regulation to win the fight.

The final of the match is not "anybody's call." It is our judges call. Much like Pride, the decision of a match is based on judges criteria, and judges score card. Its not a crap shoot, so I hope that is not what you belived it to be. Again, all of our judges are competitors, and have trained for years in wrestling, grappling, and bjj. We do not have boxing commissioners judging a Martial Arts event. I hope this cleared any confusion. Rav21, if you have any more comments, suggestions, or questions, you can email me. I dont want my replies to seem as a disrespect towards the Gracie Open thread. Thank you.


thanks for the info. these are just questions and don't reflect any sour grapes or anything.

I think the bottom line is there is a bit of contradiction. when joe won this match, it wan stated that he got several takedowns and nick pulled guard. well, if there are no points scored, this shouldnt be looked upon as a loss of points, virtuall or literal.

I respect your goals and open mindedness, I am just confident that this system is in the infintile stages ans may need some tweeking (which you are open to).

the ADCC system has cool aspects, people will open up their game in the first 10 minutes without fear of losing points.

You have to acknowledge one thing- your system places more of the outcome on the judges than the competitors. For this reason alone, there has to be a better way.