"hey bill,
"why are you pulling an ADCC and not announcing who is in the pro division until the day before?"
i'm intentionally imitating one the best events in the world.
keeping the names secret until a day before the event adds to the prestige of the event and to the guys who are putting it all on the line. they deserve the credit.
take care." -seanbansfield
Sean - My personal opinion is you should PROMOTE the competitors in the pro division in order to not only promote your tournament, but to promote the competitors themselves. It is prestigious and they deserve the credit, so why not promote them to get their names out across the world and to also generate some excitement for your tournament?
Maximusmi...GREAT posts! Very well said.
Sean, I have remained silent on this until now because I feel some of our reasons for not coming have been misrepresented. We have had several people email/tell us that they heard we 'were not allowing our students to compete.' I jusst wanted everyone to know EXACTLY what our position was.
As far as your tournament being run on par w/ NAGA, etc...If you mean that you want to run it smoothly and have things run on time, then GREAT. HOWEVER, these tournaments have some of the largest women divisions in the country, so I felt that was a misrepresentation.
QUINCY NAILED IT RIGHT ON THE HEAD WHEN HE SAID OUR DECISION WAS BASED ON VERY SIMPLE VIRTUES AND NOT ON 'RELIGIOUS THEORY'.
We do everything as a team...we train, eat, travel, stay in hotels, and compete as a team and family. We would find it awkard to go to an event when half of our competition team wouldn't be able to go and be a part of the day.
Your right Sean, I should of just let this be. It's always easier to sit back and just let things happen and then complain about it behind close doors, right? But you know what, at least now I can look and my girlfriend and teammate and know that she thinks I did the right thing. Also, there about 10 guys who have ties to the women's team, and they feel the same way.
Please don't use words like 'betrayed' and 'sabotage', you have done nothing to address any of my or anyone elses concerns or comments over this and simply say that we are trying to ruin your event and throw around these negative words. So go ahead and blame me that is fine. I am at peace with my decision and feel that I have done nothing wrong by you or your belief. If you still doubt my reasonings please reposts the pages and pages of emails I have sent you over this...
So with all that said, Sean, I seriously wish you the best of luck on your tournament and good luck to all the competitors. We are doing just what you suggest and sitting this one out and waiting for the next one.
BTW, ADCC was never advertised as anything but a men's grappling division. Not a "great, fun-filled event for all."
Quincy, thanks for the kind words. I took a note from your book and said what I felt because it was right.
"Sorry, I don't know much about the "prince"; please enlighten me."
Islam is the official religion of the United Arab Emirates and of the royal family. I believe it is about 98% Sunni Muslim..(traditional).
"A girl did fight in the Sept event though. My student had to fight her."
Yes, and I found this out AFTER the tournament. AFTER Sean had told me no females are able to fight. BUT, she could not fight no gi. She had to be fully clothed like the women are treated in his relegion.
Quinn was saying that this is America, women should be treated equal and shouldnt have to be covered up and hiddin. That was the biggest complant. Sean stated when he was going to let me fight before hand, that I had to be complety covered (gi).
Sean
There is nothing you can do to make it up to me. You believe in what you do and have made your choices. Even if there was a womens division that was put into your tournament, after all this, I still would not compete. Im not trying to be mean here. But it dosent make sence to me that you would bring your religion into this matter. I remember correctly that you where the judge for my fight against Jakie last year and it was a no gi fight. For you to say that females have to be covered up when they fight is nothing but decrimnation and sexist.
I feel as though that myself and the females of WW where excited about your tournament back in SEPT when we thought that we would be able to fight, because it was a Michigan tournament and there are not many tournaments that are hosted here in Michigan. So to have something so close felt like an honor .... and honor that was pulled up from underneith us.
Phrancis
Sean's religion is not "un-american". What is is that women can't be part of a public tournament because of the religion and if for some reason they can fight, they have to be covered up. This is america, that shit is suppose to happen other countries. And the countries that we are at war with.
Marie
"Is my event the only event women can compete at in the Midwest area? What about the Arnolds, Relsons, Champions Challenge, Can-American,...? Those events are well-run and have tough female competitors."....
No, your event is the only event in the midwest that openly descrimanites against women. This is wrong anywhere, especially in America.
IMHO you will not build something to equal NAGA or Arnold's unless this type of descrimanation is left out. I know there were about 5 people from Grand Rapids that were planning on coming over. I doubt they will now.
Bill,
Now I will have to keep their names secret for other reasons. Those fine competitors are coming to put their skills on the line against the best and to win a little extra cash to do something nice for themselves and their families. If no one else showed up except them, I would still honor my side of the bargain and pay them their due, even if I took a loss.
But you have a valid point though.
Take care.
Sean
"But it dosent make sence to me that you would bring your religion into this matter"
Please, what part of this being "his" tournament do you not understand?
You are not entitled to an entry..Period.
Further, If you only follow your religion part of the day, you are not true to it. So this "why are you bringing religion into it" dosnt wash. You should follow the path of your religion everyday, all day.
This fact is what allows me to say to myself "I dont agree with it personally, but I understand".
It should stand as a shining example of Sean's dedication to his god and what he thinks is right, that he is willing to take the heat from this and stand his ground..
It does not matter if I agree, you agree or anyone else does..It is his tournament, his choice and his faith..You have NO right to question that and no right to persecute him because of it..
Simply decide what your course of action will be and move on.
Quincy
No one asked you, so why say anything.
Unless I personaly direct any of this to you, butt out.
You and I have had our conflicts in the past. And right now, Im happy with where I am and what Im doing. I no longer need your opion.
yes Ma'am!
Quincy, I mean Mitsuyo, has the right idea, everyone do what they're gonna do and be done with it. Any remaining personal grievances should be settled privately.
All our grievances here at work get thrown out.
Double Post
Angelo,
So much for your promise to keep this issue off the Underground.
As far as your well-wishing, what can I say. Your post and subsequent responses have damaged my event significantly. Actions speak louder than words.
Oh and one of your teammates also started a post like yours on another forum. Same effect.
I hope this makes your TEAM happy.
Sean
Angelo and Caique TEAM,
"I hope this makes your TEAM happy."
I apologize for this statement. I take that back.
Sean
i've read the arguments posted on this thread about this issue and can understand why all parties take the positions they do. i'm not making a judgement in any way about whether their stance is correct or not, i hope they do what they believe is right. the only reason i posted was because quinn made a comment that i found absolutely disgusting. and so i posed the question of how sean's religion is un-american and have received the repsonses below (i don't believe they are taken out of context, if so please correct me):
from TapMe: "IMHO, his religion is not un-American...."
from Lil Katai: "Sean's religion is not "un-american". "
for the record, i was raised catholic but i don't think sean's religion is un-american either. afterall, how can a religion be un-american? this is why i was shocked to see quinn's comment. thanks for answering for quinn but by doing so, aren't you just making an assumption on what quinn meant? quinn was the one who made the comment. figuratively speaking, the words came from his mouth. i'm wondering why quinn was able to easily spew a comment like that but when asked to expand on it with an explanation he cannot produce an answer, one hopefully with convincing arguments that would compel me to also believe that sean's religion is un-american.
QUINN: PLEASE EDUCATE ME AS TO HOW SEAN'S RELIGION IS UN-AMERICAN. i've always tried to keep an open mind and see why people believe the things they do. please help me to understand why you believe any religion is un-american. thanks.
hope all goes well for everyone.
LOL @ Phrancis not letting it go! I love it.
edit: God forbid someone who spews something ridiculously stupid on here has to actually answer to it. I wouldnt expect a reply.
ok here goes.....sean is doing great things for bjj....and i like him as a training partner!! as far as his beleifs....well we couldnt be farther apart....this was never a problem for sean and i...and we always got along fine.....but now you have a PUBLIC event open to all but 1 group of people....well we all have heard of this before....nothing new to any of us.....there are also people who oppose this type of thinking......i just so happen to think of women or anyone else, as having the same rights under GOD that everyone else has....and i know its wrong to not recognise this!! that is my problem/my possision on this matter.....
phrancis- i feel his religion is un american brecuz it does NOT support the american way of life....also given the fact that we have people trying to kill americans everyday calling themselves musslems....well i think you see where im going with this??
i respect all of your oppinions!! and thank you for them!!! anyone who knows me knows i run my mouth...im not always right but who is?? im also no diplamat!! on this matter i know im correct!!
sean-i know this changes things between us and im sorry for that...i have spent valuble time with you!!
you know how i feel and i know how you feel....good luck to you!!!
as far as dissrespect...well its the women who are dissrespected here.....
i am done pursuing an answer to my question and here's why: whenever anyone has to resort to an explanation that includes "on this matter i know im correct!!" i see immeidately that there is no reasoning with the person. it becomes obvious that they take a firm stance in their own rigtheousness and are unopen to any other ideas. quinn's opinions are one thing, and he is certainly entitled to them. but to use this type of explanation as a compelling argument is unconvincing at best. the american way of life ensures that ALL religions are recognized and have a place within the country.
also, there is a dangerous train of thought that quinn uses:
"given the fact that we have people trying to kill americans everyday calling themselves musslems....well i think you see where im going with this??"
there were germans and japanese in world war 2 who were killing americans. they were christians and buddhists. shall we use quinn's argument here and extrapolate to say that since they tried to kill americans in the past that all christians and buddhists are therefore also un-american? i understand quinn's concerns about this tournament. i might even share some of them. but his arguments to support his comment are filled with holes.
some may ask why, if i understand quinn's position, i continue to belabour the point since it's only in the details of his argument that i have a problem with. it's because it's in the details that understanding is created; that a mutual respect, despite differences, can be reached; and where friendships can become irreconcilable.
i understand why quinn and WW will not compete in this tournament and absolutely respect that. it is my understanding that UofM will be there to compete and i will be there possibly as a competitor (if, as angelo suggests, i can get my snowboarding self off the slopes and back onto the mat to train) and definitely as a coach and supporter of all UofM team members.
hope all goes well for everyone.
edited: to change the tense in one sentence and to include the fact that rj is a smooth operator and needs to get rerox a girlfirend.
Phrancis: See, I sorta disagree here...
Now, what if I had a tourney, that was "great, fun-filled event for all" that I didn't allow african americans to compete in? Or Asians?