GSP is still the Shoot Box King

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zDmmB7gclrY#t=196

If the time capture link doesnt work above, go to 3:20 of the vid where GSP scores his first td against Hendricks where his level change and anticipation of Hendricks coming fwd to punch is simply flawless.

Btw, mods, its one of the UFC free fights on youtube, so guessing its ok to post?

Wasa-B - I was just looking at that gif too BW, ha....i couldnt find any of the R5 td but its exactly what im talking about: 1-2 shoot and the opponent is way behind reacting. Same with the Condit fight like the 2nd gif you posted in that one, Condit is still covering up and GSP is already on his hips with a shot.

And the Condit fight was after GSP's ACL surgery too, right?

Maybe I'm alzheimered, but I thought GSP had surgery at one time that put him out for a year or something. When the hell was that?

WoodenPupa - Maybe I'm alzheimered, but I thought GSP had surgery at one time that put him out for a year or something. When the hell was that?

He injured it in Dec. 2011, and came back about a year later to fight Condit. You remembered correctly.

WoodenPupa - 
WoodenPupa - Maybe I'm alzheimered, but I thought GSP had surgery at one time that put him out for a year or something. When the hell was that?

He injured it in Dec. 2011, and came back about a year later to fight Condit. You remembered correctly.

Thanks bro.

He's lost the majority of his explosiveness but that's normal, given the injuries. At this point, I wouldn't want to see him fight Robbie. Robbie is a monster.

I agree that GSP is the king of this. As we discussed on another thread, he was excellent at basing his takedowns on how his stance compared to his opponents. In my mind, the three best we've seen at shoot-box are (in order): (1) GSP; (2) Weidman; (3) DC (huge ceiling) (4) Frankie; (5) Chael.

A huge difference between GSP and Hendricks: GSP was hell bent on finishing. Johnny focused on getting in. I think this has more to do with GSP's faith in his conditioning. Johnny simply hasn't pulled the trigger on his TDs like he did in college and I think that's because 15-25 minutes is much longer than 7. An old, injured GSP tried (and failed) to finish that single against Johnny. Johnny just hung in on the singles.

Fedor and Machida are kings of the box-trip/throw.

GSP definitely lost a step after the knee injury. He took way more damage in his three fights after returning (Condit, Diaz, Hendricks) then he took in nearly all his fights prior. Technically he's still sound but that extra fraction of second it takes him to shoot might as well be a minute when you're fighting the best in the world. Phone Post 3.0

WoodenPupa - 
WoodenPupa - 
WoodenPupa - Maybe I'm alzheimered, but I thought GSP had surgery at one time that put him out for a year or something. When the hell was that?

He injured it in Dec. 2011, and came back about a year later to fight Condit. You remembered correctly.

Thanks bro.

Bros, thats right, GSP came back to fight Condit, Diaz and Hendricks within a year of his return from surgery. The guy held it down like no other in the UFC.

wiggum - I agree that GSP is the king of this. As we discussed on another thread, he was excellent at basing his takedowns on how his stance compared to his opponents. In my mind, the three best we've seen at shoot-box are (in order): (1) GSP; (2) Weidman; (3) DC (huge ceiling) (4) Frankie; (5) Chael.

A huge difference between GSP and Hendricks: GSP was hell bent on finishing. Johnny focused on getting in. I think this has more to do with GSP's faith in his conditioning. Johnny simply hasn't pulled the trigger on his TDs like he did in college and I think that's because 15-25 minutes is much longer than 7. An old, injured GSP tried (and failed) to finish that single against Johnny. Johnny just hung in on the singles.

Fedor and Machida are kings of the box-trip/throw.

Good point on Chael too. He wasnt the best striker but he did have excellent td set ups. The Marquardt fight is a great example of that. Marquardt admitted after that he should not have been goaded into brawling which left him open for the tds too often.

Another good point on the conditioning but i think it didnt help that Johnny didnt really set up the tds that well and it seemed like he did it when he was tired instead of GSP proactively pursuing them with better conditioning, range gaging, range closing, strike set ups, etc. Another thing I noticed about GSP's stance is that he often put a lot of weight on his front foot like a wrestler but still had his body upright to strike. Im thinking this was a half way stance between being ready to jab or shoot? He and Weidman also shoot with their left leg forward. I checked Weidman's wrestling videos and he wrestled with the same stance. However I believe most right handed people wrestle with their right leg forward no? Same with judo. But is the right hand still GSP and Weidman's natural power punching hand?

Which way do DC, Frankie and Chael shoot?

And yes, in his prime, Fedor was top notch at this too esp with using momentum from his strikes (right hand lead) into a clinch trip/throw. His fight with CC was the best example probably esp seeing that Coleman couldnt get CC down. Machida has brought the trips from closing the distance from karate, some similarities and differences with Fedor's judo style. Good stuff Wiggs! Def some interesting things to think about.

Wasa-B - 
wiggum - I agree that GSP is the king of this. As we discussed on another thread, he was excellent at basing his takedowns on how his stance compared to his opponents. In my mind, the three best we've seen at shoot-box are (in order): (1) GSP; (2) Weidman; (3) DC (huge ceiling) (4) Frankie; (5) Chael.

A huge difference between GSP and Hendricks: GSP was hell bent on finishing. Johnny focused on getting in. I think this has more to do with GSP's faith in his conditioning. Johnny simply hasn't pulled the trigger on his TDs like he did in college and I think that's because 15-25 minutes is much longer than 7. An old, injured GSP tried (and failed) to finish that single against Johnny. Johnny just hung in on the singles.

Fedor and Machida are kings of the box-trip/throw.

Good point on Chael too. He wasnt the best striker but he did have excellent td set ups. The Marquardt fight is a great example of that. Marquardt admitted after that he should not have been goaded into brawling which left him open for the tds too often.

Another good point on the conditioning but i think it didnt help that Johnny didnt really set up the tds that well and it seemed like he did it when he was tired instead of GSP proactively pursuing them with better conditioning, range gaging, range closing, strike set ups, etc. Another thing I noticed about GSP's stance is that he often put a lot of weight on his front foot like a wrestler but still had his body upright to strike. Im thinking this was a half way stance between being ready to jab or shoot? He and Weidman also shoot with their left leg forward. I checked Weidman's wrestling videos and he wrestled with the same stance. However I believe most right handed people wrestle with their right leg forward no? Same with judo. But is the right hand still GSP and Weidman's natural power punching hand?

Which way do DC, Frankie and Chael shoot?

And yes, in his prime, Fedor was top notch at this too esp with using momentum from his strikes (right hand lead) into a clinch trip/throw. His fight with CC was the best example probably esp seeing that Coleman couldnt get CC down. Machida has brought the trips from closing the distance from karate, some similarities and differences with Fedor's judo style. Good stuff Wiggs! Def some interesting things to think about.

Great post.

Not sure what legs Frankie and Chael shoot with, but I'm pretty sure Frankie switches his stance.

This is a very underappreciated aspect of MMA/MMA wrestling. If you are a righty in both boxing and wrestling, it means you have a different leg forward in both. A guy like GSP probably taught himself to be a left in wrestling so he didn't have to switch stances. It's a HUGE advantage to have your best wrestling stance be the opposite of your best boxing stance.

Ok, so we know GSP and Weidman both stand orthodox but shoot "left" or head to his right (so with shooting foot forward).

Chael stands southpaw and shoots "right" or head to his left (shooting foot forward again).

Cain, someone we forgot in terms of top "Shoot Box" or boxing/wrestling, stands orthodox but seems to shoot either side and, like we were talking on another thread, does seem to shoot a lot of singles.

Frankie stands orthodox but still shoots "right" or head to his left so switches stances as he shoots.

Fedor stood orthodox and did most of his tds in the clinch where he threw "right" or with his right arm as the power arm in the clinch.

Tito seems to stand orthodox and shoot "left." The interesting thing would be to check on which way they all shot in wrestling.

Wasa-B - Ok, so we know GSP and Weidman both stand orthodox but shoot "left" or head to his right (so with shooting foot forward).

Chael stands southpaw and shoots "right" or head to his left (shooting foot forward again).

Cain, someone we forgot in terms of top "Shoot Box" or boxing/wrestling, stands orthodox but seems to shoot either side and, like we were talking on another thread, does seem to shoot a lot of singles.

Frankie stands orthodox but still shoots "right" or head to his left so switches stances as he shoots.

Fedor stood orthodox and did most of his tds in the clinch where he threw "right" or with his right arm as the power arm in the clinch.

Tito seems to stand orthodox and shoot "left." The interesting thing would be to check on which way they all shot in wrestling.

Great stuff. Absolutely right about Cain. How could I forget him? He's actually the perfect example to someone who succeeds where Hendricks failed against Robbie. Cain gets the single and runs it! He is confident enough with his cardio that he actually wrestles.

Wrestling is interesting. We all have our dominant leg, but once you start handfighting, the great wrestlers become a bit more ambidextrous.

Awesome thread, and one in which true fans can appreciate what it really means to be the best in the world.

War GSP Phone Post 3.0

JediJitsu - Awesome thread, and one in which true fans can appreciate what it really means to be the best in the world.

War GSP Phone Post 3.0
Best in the world at avoiding Anderson Silva for half of his career lmfao Phone Post 3.0

KingOfFighters - 
JediJitsu - Awesome thread, and one in which true fans can appreciate what it really means to be the best in the world.

War GSP Phone Post 3.0
Best in the world at avoiding Anderson Silva for half of his career lmfao Phone Post 3.0

Best in the world at 170 pounds. Anderson proved quite adept at avoiding Jon Jones, who has proven quite adept at avoiding Cain.

GTFO with this nonsense.

Only BJ Penn can say something like this.

I just rewatched Cain v. Brock. Cain really uses his boxing nicely to setup a head outside single.

I'm not sure if any fight ever exemplified how the threat of wrestling can improve your striking more than Cain v. JDS. Absolutely lit him up because the thread of wrestling. (Actually, Randleman v. CroCop probably the best example)

wiggum -
KingOfFighters - 
JediJitsu - Awesome thread, and one in which true fans can appreciate what it really means to be the best in the world.

War GSP Phone Post 3.0
Best in the world at avoiding Anderson Silva for half of his career lmfao Phone Post 3.0

Best in the world at 170 pounds. Anderson proved quite adept at avoiding Jon Jones, who has proven quite adept at avoiding Cain.

GTFO with this nonsense.

Only BJ Penn can say something like this.
His comment didn't even warrant an answer. Obviously either a troll or has a full affliction sleeve. Phone Post 3.0

wiggum:

you mentioned that "It's a HUGE advantage to have your best wrestling stance be the opposite of your best boxing stance."

just curious...why do you think that is?

Anyone know how to view that new GSP doc? I tried buying it in iTunes and it wouldn't let me because they said it was iTunes Canada only?

Any help is much appreciated Phone Post 3.0