Gust: I don't think Shogun is what he was

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Source: Alexander Gustafsson: "I don't think Shogun is what he was back in the day."

 
I'm having a hard time deciding if i agree with Gust assessment. Sure how can Shogun be the same after so many knee surgeries, but at the same time he has put in great performances in his last couple of fights.
 
I think Shogun just has like an on and off switch. Sometimes he shows up, and others u go like wow is that shogun in that cage?

 

What u guys think?
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Billy Joe Rottoncrotch - Physically I don't think Shogun is what he used to be either.

But his warrior spirit is still enough to carry the day against most fighters.

This.

But sadly, I think Gustafsson is too much for Shoie Phone Post

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Watch how much Shogun moves and flies around and how fast he is against Ricardo Arona, then watch his last two fights against Hendo and Vera. Speed isn't really there and neither is the movement, he just kind of plods forward now.

His chin and heart are so amazing he can make it work and win still, but I don't think it's unfair to say he isn't what he used to be. Phone Post

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Why would he say that lol if he wins he pretty much just said oh i beat past it shogun

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Pride Wanderlei - 
Billy Joe Rottoncrotch - Physically I don't think Shogun is what he used to be either.

But his warrior spirit is still enough to carry the day against most fighters.

This.

But sadly, I think Gustafsson is too much for Shoie Phone Post


I hope you guys are wrong. Shogun is the man (was possibly). =/

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I like gustafsson and respect his abilities, but i dont think he's quite ready to take down shogun, even in shogun's twilight. Shogun will come in with a finishing instinct and a set of hands that gustafsson hasnt even imagined yet, never mind been across the ring from. Shogun might be fading a little, but gustafsson is still green. Im putting some bank on shogun for the win saturday. First time in a while i thought the bookies were that far off on odds. Phone Post

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Billy Joe Rottoncrotch - 
OnlyTheStrongSurvive - 

Watch how much Shogun moves and flies around and how fast he is against Ricardo Arona, then watch his last two fights against Hendo and Vera. Speed isn't really there and neither is the movement, he just kind of plods forward now.

His chin and heart are so amazing he can make it work and win still, but I don't think it's unfair to say he isn't what he used to be. Phone Post


Watch how jacked up his body looked in those Grand Prix fights.

Just looked like a physical beast compared to the way he looks now.

Or even against Machida, looked a lot better than he has since those two fights.

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Unfortunately, Shogun's mystique took a huge hit with the Jones fight then again with the Vera fight that most predicted he finish quickly.

(Looking back, in fairness Vera was a tough match stylistically as he's a similar striker and had a size advantage).

In any case, Gustaf should be favored in this fight but Rua has shown the ability to explode on guys. Over 3 rounds I doubt he can hang with the Swede but he absolutely can catch him early.

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Gus, you gon learn today.

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It's practically impossible for Shogun to be what he used to be after so many surgeries, so Gus is accurate there, and he said it in a very respectful way. I do believe people overstate Shogun's decline though.

People really overrated Shogun/underrated Vera for that fight, which has then caused the pendulum to swing in totally the opposite direction and now they underrate Shogun. I don't think we'll see Pride Shogun/vs. Chuck Shogun/vs. Machida I Shogun ever again. Chuck/Machida I was probably the best he ever looked. But he tore up his knee again in the second Machida fight, and it's highly doubtful he's able to recover fully. But still - as mentioned above, he's got the same iron chin, and the same heavy hands. That itself can be enough to beat Gus, on the right night.

The real question is - can Shogun kick anymore? He's abandoned his #1 weapon. Not sure if that's poor gameplanning, or if he physically is unable to kick anymore after so many surgeries.

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BoilerBrawnByBeatdown - yeah. Gustaffson is a much better striker than Jones.

Totally disagree. Jones basically kept Shogun at distance like a bully to a little kid, just sticking those straight punches in combination with his very long legs. Jones' range is just absurd.

Gus and Shogun have the same reach. Gus can't keep Shogun at bay with just jabs and kicks, like Jones could. Gus might have better technique but in terms of actual effectiveness, I would put Jones in a whole 'nother ballpark than Gus.
Billy Joe Rottoncrotch - Watch how jacked up his body looked in those Grand Prix fights.

What? Shogun never looked jacked. He had slightly better pecs back then, but that's just aging, as you get older the skin loses it's tightness.
Oprah666 - True, shogun isnt as good as he used to be....but youre not as good as shogun used to be either, so....

Haha, so true! Voted up :)

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DaemonDragon - It's practically impossible for Shogun to be what he used to be after so many surgeries, so Gus is accurate there, and he said it in a very respectful way. I do believe people overstate Shogun's decline though.

People really overrated Shogun/underrated Vera for that fight, which has then caused the pendulum to swing in totally the opposite direction and now they underrate Shogun. I don't think we'll see Pride Shogun/vs. Chuck Shogun/vs. Machida I Shogun ever again. Chuck/Machida I was probably the best he ever looked. But he tore up his knee again in the second Machida fight, and it's highly doubtful he's able to recover fully. But still - as mentioned above, he's got the same iron chin, and the same heavy hands. That itself can be enough to beat Gus, on the right night.

The real question is - can Shogun kick anymore? He's abandoned his #1 weapon. Not sure if that's poor gameplanning, or if he physically is unable to kick anymore after so many surgeries.

Do you exactly how serious the third knee surgery was? Because ever since then he has just not looked the same.

I really hope lack of kicks is more due to poor game planning rather then his knee's being shot. If his knee's are truly shot then IMO it's best to retire, instead of continuing to punish his body and competing as a mere shell of his former self.

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epic hero - 
DaemonDragon - It's practically impossible for Shogun to be what he used to be after so many surgeries, so Gus is accurate there, and he said it in a very respectful way. I do believe people overstate Shogun's decline though.

People really overrated Shogun/underrated Vera for that fight, which has then caused the pendulum to swing in totally the opposite direction and now they underrate Shogun. I don't think we'll see Pride Shogun/vs. Chuck Shogun/vs. Machida I Shogun ever again. Chuck/Machida I was probably the best he ever looked. But he tore up his knee again in the second Machida fight, and it's highly doubtful he's able to recover fully. But still - as mentioned above, he's got the same iron chin, and the same heavy hands. That itself can be enough to beat Gus, on the right night.

The real question is - can Shogun kick anymore? He's abandoned his #1 weapon. Not sure if that's poor gameplanning, or if he physically is unable to kick anymore after so many surgeries.

Do you exactly how serious the third knee surgery was? Because ever since then he has just not looked the same.

I really hope lack of kicks is more due to poor game planning rather then his knee's being shot. If his knee's are truly shot then IMO it's best to retire, instead of continuing to punish his body and competing as a mere shell of his former self.

Well, I've read from edguardo his old manager, that he basically couldn't train at all for the hendo fight( broken clavicle, broken shins or something), but I don't know what was up with the vera fight.

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"Gus and Shogun have the same reach."

Am I the only one who has trouble believing this is actually true? Alex is 6'5" and *looks* extremely long-limbed, while Shogun is 6' and looks average.

The 6'5" Alex having the same reach as the 5'9" Miguel Torres seems highly implausible to me as well...

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BoilerBrawnByBeatdown - Gustaffson is right, go watch the Vera fight.

Bumps! Cause its right. . Phone Post

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orcus - 


"Gus and Shogun have the same reach."



Am I the only one who has trouble believing this is actually true? Alex is 6'5" and looks extremely long-limbed, while Shogun is 6' and looks average.



The 6'5" Alex having the same reach as the 5'9" Miguel Torres seems highly implausible to me as well...





Cyrille's got an 81.5" reach. According to the UFC, Alexander has a 76.5" reach. I would say Alexander is between that and 78.5".

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For crow eating later Phone Post

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BoilerBrawnByBeatdown - and to the people talking reach and how Gustaffson only has a 76.5 inch reach.

being 6'5'' and having a 76.5'' reach is different than being 6'1'' and having the same reach.


Right, because his dick is bigger.

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Rear Naked Chode - 
epic hero - 
DaemonDragon - It's practically impossible for Shogun to be what he used to be after so many surgeries, so Gus is accurate there, and he said it in a very respectful way. I do believe people overstate Shogun's decline though.

People really overrated Shogun/underrated Vera for that fight, which has then caused the pendulum to swing in totally the opposite direction and now they underrate Shogun. I don't think we'll see Pride Shogun/vs. Chuck Shogun/vs. Machida I Shogun ever again. Chuck/Machida I was probably the best he ever looked. But he tore up his knee again in the second Machida fight, and it's highly doubtful he's able to recover fully. But still - as mentioned above, he's got the same iron chin, and the same heavy hands. That itself can be enough to beat Gus, on the right night.

The real question is - can Shogun kick anymore? He's abandoned his #1 weapon. Not sure if that's poor gameplanning, or if he physically is unable to kick anymore after so many surgeries.

Do you exactly how serious the third knee surgery was? Because ever since then he has just not looked the same.

I really hope lack of kicks is more due to poor game planning rather then his knee's being shot. If his knee's are truly shot then IMO it's best to retire, instead of continuing to punish his body and competing as a mere shell of his former self.

Well, I've read from edguardo his old manager, that he basically couldn't train at all for the hendo fight( broken clavicle, broken shins or something), but I don't know what was up with the vera fight.

Yep I knew about that too.

It does explain his performance in that fight but overall he just hasn't looked like the same fighter ever since that third knee surgery.

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BoilerBrawnByBeatdown - to DaemonDragon, you don't think Gus is a better striker?

Gustaffson actually engages.

Not saying Jones NEVER engages, but he mostly uses his reach to keep people away not to put people away.

Gus does have more power, as Jones has not displayed knockout power on the feet, he's more of a volume striker. But I think the great majority of MMA fighters would have more difficulty dealing with Jones' striking, than they would Gus.

Everyone talks about Jones' wingspan, however they don't mention the length of his legs enough. Jones can kick people from way out of his opponents' striking ranges. An opponent has to leap inside, just to get past the kicks, and that's not easy because Jones has great reflexes.

I see Shogun having much more success standing with Gus than Jones. I was at 128, and I'm not sure if this came across on TV, but the sheer SPEED of Jones' attacks was simply astonishing. He came at Shogun so hard and so fast, Shogun was completely overwhelmed within the first minute. And that's not even taking takedowns into account. Jones' speed, especially with his unorthodox spinning elbows, was incredible.

Now I think fighters are more prepared for Jones unorthodox moves, but I still don't see them dealing with his speed and his reach - the man uses elbows like jabs for goodness sake! O_O And those kicks come from so far away, and are extremely difficult to counter because of Jones speed and amazing reflexes.

Gus is the better technical boxer, but Jones' physical attributes, wide array of moves, and fight IQ more than compensate for that.
being 6'5'' and having a 76.5'' reach is different than being 6'1'' and having the same reach.

This is true, but that's still a big difference from Jones, who is not only 6'4" but has 8 inches of reach on Gus. Shogun will find dealing with Gus' standup to be a substantially easier task.

Now I'm not saying Shogun will win, I have no idea really who wins this fight. But I'm fairly certain Shogun will perform miles better on the standup than he did against Jones.