Trichoke7 - However, I disagree that takedowns shouldn't be awarded points, because getting a takedown is a dominant action. For example, in my 3 point takedwn condition it would really hurt under most conditions but the onlt reason it doesn't here is because you're falling on mats. So, I like to reward slamming someone on their backs because it rewards the ability to deliver some good damage to an opponent under other circumstances.
I agree in principle, but the reason I said no points for takedowns (when also awarding no points for sweeps) was to avoid conservatism/stalling on the feet, leading to too little groundwork. There would still be an incentive to use takedowns even if they weren't worth points, as top position would be more attractive, and some might even specialize in using takedowns to bypass the guard to side control or back takes. Again, pulling guard would be less attractive when sweeping to score isn't an option.
Pulling guard discourages gyms from emphasizing takedowns, which are an extremely important part of the art. I like Andre and 12's proposal of -1 points for a guard pull
Takedown = 2 points Guard pull = -1 point sweep/reversal = 3 points side control = 1 point mount = 2 points back = 3 points escape to neutral position = 1 point submission attempt that forces escape = 1 point
I don't think this will do enough to discourage guard pulling because you are giving lots of points for sweeping even when you end up in top guard. People will just eat the -1 to get 3 points from the sweep. In your scoring system sweeping is one of the most valuable things you can do.
get over it, the points are staying the same.. what do you care how someone wins? Get your ass out there and compete and get your takedown.. btw, im not a guard player..
How about 0 points for a takedown to guard, and no points for sweeps that land in guard. No penalty for guard pulling. Guard passing scores. Takedown past guard scores.
Im not sure if the scoring is the real problem. I was never really taught take downs, and we spend little time with it.
I am learning stand up from wrestlers at my school but its on my own time
I dont blame instructors though. God knows theres already an insane amount to learn just on the ground. And a lot of it is perpetuated by the instructors above them who didnt spend much time on stand up either.
I dont think scoring is the issue here either. these guys are finding creative ways to win. I am tired of all the crying going on about this. You dont like guard players?? smash and pass.. ohh you cant? well they must be doing something right then. get your precious takedown before he pulls.. personally thats what i try.. or just let the guy pull and start passing. double guard pull? ohh well, they arent competing to entertain you, they are competeing to win based on the rules in place.
Buchecha said during his interview on the inside bjj podcast that he needs to win so he can book more seminars. if hes not on the podium he doesnt get name recognition, he cant book as many seminars, he wont make the money he needs to survive while he trains full time. Not as relevant ecause he is very exciting to watch but thats the mindset of high level comp guys.
-seems like most of the complaining about scoring is by fanboys that have never stepped on an ibjjf mat. Go sign up and show us all how "you would do it" ass clowns..
People who want more points for takedowns just want the points system In there favor. You should be able to avoid a guard pull just like someone needs to avoid a takedown. Jiu jitsu isn't one dimensional yet you are trying to make it that. It isnt wrestling its jiu jitsu.
bgup619 - I dont think scoring is the issue here either. these guys are finding creative ways to win. I am tired of all the crying going on about this. You dont like guard players?? smash and pass.. ohh you cant? well they must be doing something right then. get your precious takedown before he pulls.. personally thats what i try.. or just let the guy pull and start passing. double guard pull? ohh well, they arent competing to entertain you, they are competeing to win based on the rules in place.
Buchecha said during his interview on the inside bjj podcast that he needs to win so he can book more seminars. if hes not on the podium he doesnt get name recognition, he cant book as many seminars, he wont make the money he needs to survive while he trains full time. Not as relevant ecause he is very exciting to watch but thats the mindset of high level comp guys.
-seems like most of the complaining about scoring is by fanboys that have never stepped on an ibjjf mat. Go sign up and show us all how "you would do it" ass clowns..
sorry for the FRAT but this shit is getting old.
You called me ass clown, so brought it to this level now it's going to come back at you.
You stated that they are trying to win based on the rules in place. No shit, dumbass. Obviously if you want to win then you should play to the advatage of the rule set/point system. The behavior of the competitors is determined by the rules. THAT'S WHY I PROPOSED A NEW POINT SYSTEM TO CHANGE THE BEHAVIORS OF THE COMPETITORS. Was your brain too small to comprehend that?
Some of us believe that BJJ is a martial art not interpretive dance and that it's sportive aspect should stay true to this. Obviously when you make something a sport you have to make some concessions away from real fighting, but the double butt flop sissy shit has gone too far astray.
Rival School - People who want more points for takedowns just want the points system In there favor. You should be able to avoid a guard pull just like someone needs to avoid a takedown. Jiu jitsu isn't one dimensional yet you are trying to make it that. It isnt wrestling its jiu jitsu.
A true ground fighter should have the ability to take someone to the ground. It's ironic that BJJ players are ground specialists but they can't even take someone to the ground. Don't you see problem/irony in that?
Are you going to butt flop in the real fight?
Yes, sport BJJ isn't a real fight, and like I said above when you make something like this into a sport you make concessions away from a real fight, but the butt flopping is too much of a concession. We can still maintain a safe sportive activity like we currently have without going so far astray from the real martial aspect of the art.
The problem isn't the rules or takedowns- tons of matches I have seen in ADCC where both of the competitors are trying for takedowns but cant get it. Most of the time it seems there waiting almost half the match before they really try.
Its about issuing a penalty or point deduction for stalling. Now that will open up a new bag of worms with the Refs but I can't think of anything else that would make things more watchable.
nate7 - The problem isn't the rules or takedowns- tons of matches I have seen in ADCC where both of the competitors are trying for takedowns but cant get it. Most of the time it seems there waiting almost half the match before they really try.
Its about issuing a penalty or point deduction for stalling. Now that will open up a new bag of worms with the Refs but I can't think of anything else that would make things more watchable.
FlyingKnee_bar - instead of penalizing -1 or -2 for the guy pulling the guard it should jsut be +1 or +2 for the guy that ended on top, that would solve everything
just make it so the person who comes up first gets sweep points instead of an advantage, guys are terrified to come up because they don't want to get swept so they'll sacrifice an advantage.
bgup619 - I dont think scoring is the issue here either. these guys are finding creative ways to win. I am tired of all the crying going on about this. You dont like guard players?? smash and pass.. ohh you cant? well they must be doing something right then. get your precious takedown before he pulls.. personally thats what i try.. or just let the guy pull and start passing. double guard pull? ohh well, they arent competing to entertain you, they are competeing to win based on the rules in place.
Buchecha said during his interview on the inside bjj podcast that he needs to win so he can book more seminars. if hes not on the podium he doesnt get name recognition, he cant book as many seminars, he wont make the money he needs to survive while he trains full time. Not as relevant ecause he is very exciting to watch but thats the mindset of high level comp guys.
-seems like most of the complaining about scoring is by fanboys that have never stepped on an ibjjf mat. Go sign up and show us all how "you would do it" ass clowns..
sorry for the FRAT but this shit is getting old.
You called me ass clown, so brought it to this level now it's going to come back at you.
You stated that they are trying to win based on the rules in place. No shit, dumbass. Obviously if you want to win then you should play to the advatage of the rule set/point system. The behavior of the competitors is determined by the rules. THAT'S WHY I PROPOSED A NEW POINT SYSTEM TO CHANGE THE BEHAVIORS OF THE COMPETITORS. Was your brain too small to comprehend that?
Some of us believe that BJJ is a martial art not interpretive dance and that it's sportive aspect should stay true to this. Obviously when you make something a sport you have to make some concessions away from real fighting, but the double butt flop sissy shit has gone too far astray.
Go eat a dick, bitch. <br type="_moz" />
ohh i get that your proposing a new point system my point is no one gives a fuck what you think.. you really got me with your lucid argument, keep watching fanboy while others do you can sit on the sideline and point your little finger. you are actually an ass clown.. id love to see you get swept on you face by one of these "sissy butt floppers"
