"by the way the rule reads it was 10-9 it was not overwheling there were several momentum changes in the1st round"
I have to disagree completely. What I saw was indeed overwhelming.
I was saying the same thing. I scored it 10-8 Jake, 10-9 twice for Carlos. 28-28
For the people that scored it differently I would like to know how you scored it. If that first round wasn't 10-8.....then wtf is?
Pretty easily scored 28-28 IMO.
orcus - " I watched this fight twice and I can't see how Candit won the 2nd.."By being the only guy to land strikes, have a sub attempt, or pass guard in that round.I will say that even though the first round should have been 10-8 or 10-7, thus a draw or win for Jake, I think it pretty obvious that Condit "won" the fight, if you know what I mean.
Yeah....too bad those aren't the UFC rules of judging. So what is the point of mentioning this. We all know how Pride judging worked, but this isn't Pride.
Griffdog -
Also wtf at all the illegal blows to the back of Condits head but whenever Condit even came a little close to the back of Ellenberger, the ref was all over him. That may have been the most shots to the back of the head that I have seen in a fight in that first round.
+1 i noticed this also condit caught a knee to the back of the head while he was on all fours but poped right the fuck up and landed a good combo.
healzyou - To me a definition of a 10-8 round is from beginning to end you are damaging your opponent and never giving up the dominant position or having to go on defense. There is little exchange of "momentum" back and forth between fighters.
In this particular fight, it starts off with Condit throwing a kick to the body in which Ellenberger catches and fires a straight right hand which connects and puts Condit on his back. Condit seems unphased from the hit and ties Ellenberger in a tight, active guard. For the next 90 seconds, Ellenberger is not doing any damage. He is forced to be defensive because Condit is constantly threatening with a triangle and switching his hips looking for kimura, guillotine, or a sweep. Right there we have about 30% of the round where Condit (although on his back) is being the more agressive and active of the two fighters. They stand at about 3:30, and do not engage for 30 more secs.
At 3:00 they engage again and Ellenberger counters another leg kick with a straight right and then scores a knockdown which Condit is clearly hurt from. Ellenberger tries to slap on the darce, but cannot get good positioning and Condit is not in danger.
Condit stands and immediately fires two hard knees that land flush from the thai clinch. As the second knee lands, Ellenberger fires an overhand right that clips Condit and scores a second knockdown.
Ellenberger lands 3 or 4 hammerfists before Condit reverses the position and scores a takedown and lands in Ellenbergers half guard.
Condit immediately works for the mount, and shortly attains it. He lands 2 or 3 hard punches from the mount and as Ellenberger posts to stand, Condit goes for an armbar which he misses.
Condit immediately stands and Ellenberger tries for a guillotine from the clinch. He pulls Condit down into his half-guard to try and finish. Condit escapes the submission and works back into full guard. For 20 seconds Condit controls Ellenberger and lands multiple hard elbows from the bottom. All Ellenberger can do is protect his face and try to posture up and escape the guard. As Ellenberger stands to escape, Condit tries to set up a triangle which he misses. Ellenberger backs up and Condit immediately gets up.
With one minute remaining in the round Ellenberger flurries on Condit, ending with a nice head kick. He is just out of range and the kick does not land solid (looks like he gets Condit on the cheek with his toes).
The remainder of the round (:50) ends with both fighters taking a break. Condit stalks Ellenberger and both fighters land some decent shots to the body and head.
Personally I do not feel that round one deserved a 10-8. The momentum of the fight was going back and forth. Although Ellenberger did score two outstanding knockdowns, Condit was also able to gain mount and do his own damage as well as threaten with his own submission attempts. Condit was in no danger while in full guard, and was able to completely control Ellenberger in that position. You wont find any arguement from me that Ellenberger clearly won that round because of the two nice knockdowns, but he definetly did not earn a 10-8. I feel like the fight was scored correctly.
In round 3 Ellenberger had nothing left for Condit. It's hard to justify winning a fight (or even getting a draw) when you end how Ellenberger ended.
damn dude how manny times did you watch the fight to type that breakdown? nice
OctopusFighter - I could see that fight being a draw, but considering that Ellenberger hit Condit directly in the back of the head multiple times in the first without being warned for it and also grabbed the fence to defend a kimura attempt he deserved to lose that fight anyway
and a knee to the back of the head when he was down... but he is new so i guess you get a pass on your first fight???
"it was certainly very close to a 10-8, but i think you would find a hard time finding another example of a person receiving an "8" who had as much offense as condit did."
The offense is the reason I didn't have it as 10-7. I had 10-8 because of the knockdowns.
biggator -OctopusFighter - I could see that fight being a draw, but considering that Ellenberger hit Condit directly in the back of the head multiple times in the first without being warned for it and also grabbed the fence to defend a kimura attempt he deserved to lose that fight anyway
and a knee to the back of the head when he was down... but he is new so i guess you get a pass on your first fight???
If you look closer it's a knee to the shoulder, it did not hit condit in the head at all.
And when Jake was punching trying to finish the fight the 3 or 4 times he dropped condit (onto his face in the fetal position turtled up none-the-less) he was aiming at his face trying to get the TKO. If someone turtles up like that in a fight and doesnt allow the opponet to strike them in a legal way, the fight should have been stopped, so I would be happy it wasnt stopped when it should have been. IMO fight should have been stopped. Since it was not, I thought that second round went to Jake for controling condit for the almost 4 minutes he was on top or standing. A draw would have even sat well with me. But that is just one guy's opinion.
That being said, it was a great fight, could have gone either way (just like condit/kampmann), and both guys will remain in the UFC for an extended stay if they keep putting on shows like that for all of us to watch. Kudos to Condit, not many can take shots like that and keep on trucking.