EnderinAK - So what you are saying is that potential fouls that weren't recognized and thus can't be counted should go against him? Condit had some very good elbows from his back, unfortunately several of them were illegal, so I think he should lost because of that, how is that?
No, what I am saying is that in my opinion, round 1 could have been a 10-8 or a 10-9 based on how much you weighted Condit's coming back and mounting him, and I wouldn't have been surprised to see it go either way. But because Ellenberger repeatedly cheated with no repercussions I am glad that the judges saw it as a 10-9 and Condit got the W. I don't like to see cheating rewarded.
Sorry guys. Sucks to say but under the current guidelines, that first round doesn't constitute to being a 10-8 round. Although it was an extremely impressive round for Jake, for a round to be a 10-8 a fighter has to have complete control and pretty much dominate the round from start to finish. Carlos was dropped and close to being finished a couple of times but did manage to continue and was able to takedown and mount Jake and do some damage and threaten with subs.
Whatever ones opinion may be, following the current rules this is NOT a 10-8 round.
Jake did look very impressive and hadn't this been a short notice fight for him, he may have not faded and been able to win this fight. Bottom line though is that Carlos was able to win rounds 2 & 3 and steal this fight.
although i really like condit and hated this ellenberger character because of gh head..i still have to say it seems more logical to make it a draw then give it to condit. he earned it at least because i saw him controlling the first and most of the 2nd rounds.
Barbs666 - Sorry guys. Sucks to say but under the current guidelines, that first round doesn't constitute to being a 10-8 round. Although it was an extremely impressive round for Jake, for a round to be a 10-8 a fighter has to have complete control and pretty much dominate the round from start to finish. Carlos was dropped and close to being finished a couple of times but did manage to continue and was able to takedown and mount Jake and do some damage and threaten with subs.
Whatever ones opinion may be, following the current rules this is NOT a 10-8 round.
Actually, you're completely incorrect on your analysis of what constitutes a 10-8 round.
3. A round is to be scored as a 10-8 Round when a contestant overwhelmingly dominates by striking or grappling in a round.
Ellenberger overwhelmingly dominated the striking in that round.
For a fighter to earn an 8 I think they have to do almost nothing. You can't say that Condit did "nothing" in that first round. Even when he was in trouble and on his back he was trying for subs and defending well. He was also aggressive with the elbows.
Kidcombo - For a fighter to earn an 8 I think they have to do almost nothing. You can't say that Condit did "nothing" in that first round. Even when he was in trouble and on his back he was trying for subs and defending well. He was also aggressive with the elbows.
3. A round is to be scored as a 10-8 Round when a contestant overwhelmingly dominates by striking or grappling in a round.
Barbs666 - Sorry guys. Sucks to say but under the current guidelines, that first round doesn't constitute to being a 10-8 round. Although it was an extremely impressive round for Jake, for a round to be a 10-8 a fighter has to have complete control and pretty much dominate the round from start to finish. Carlos was dropped and close to being finished a couple of times but did manage to continue and was able to takedown and mount Jake and do some damage and threaten with subs.
Whatever ones opinion may be, following the current rules this is NOT a 10-8 round.
Actually, you're completely incorrect on your analysis of what constitutes a 10-8 round.
3. A round is to be scored as a 10-8 Round when a contestant overwhelmingly dominates by striking or grappling in a round.
Ellenberger overwhelmingly dominated the striking in that round.
10-8
Actually, your reading comprehension is completely incorrect.
"3. A round is to be scored as a 10-8 Round when a contestant overwhelmingly dominates by striking or grappling in a round."
It says "overwhelmingly dominates by striking or grappling in a round"
It doesn't say "overwhelmingly dominates the striking or grappling in a round"
What this means is that whether by striking and/or grappling, he would need to overwhlmingly dominate the round. Which he did not do.
Barbs666 - Sorry guys. Sucks to say but under the current guidelines, that first round doesn't constitute to being a 10-8 round. Although it was an extremely impressive round for Jake, for a round to be a 10-8 a fighter has to have complete control and pretty much dominate the round from start to finish. Carlos was dropped and close to being finished a couple of times but did manage to continue and was able to takedown and mount Jake and do some damage and threaten with subs.
Whatever ones opinion may be, following the current rules this is NOT a 10-8 round.
Actually, you're completely incorrect on your analysis of what constitutes a 10-8 round.
3. A round is to be scored as a 10-8 Round when a contestant overwhelmingly dominates by striking or grappling in a round.
Ellenberger overwhelmingly dominated the striking in that round.
10-8
Actually, your reading comprehension is completely incorrect.
"3. A round is to be scored as a 10-8 Round when a contestant overwhelmingly dominates by striking or grappling in a round."
It says "overwhelmingly dominates by striking or grappling in a round"
It doesn't say "overwhelmingly dominates the striking or grappling in a round"
What this means is that whether by striking and/or grappling, he would need to overwhlmingly dominate the round. Which he did not do.
10-9
I will not deny that Ellenberger won round 1, but to say he "overwhelmingly dominated the striking" is inaccurate. He did score two knockdowns, but was unable to really capitalize. Also, I do not think Ellenberger damaged Condit nearly as much as he did with the second knockdown as he did with the first. Condit had just fired a knee and was on one leg when Ellenbergers overhand right clipped Condit to score the second knockdown. Condit was able to reverse the position and mount Ellenberger.In the judges eyes, just the plain fact that Condit was able to obtain the mount position (even briefly) and score with power punches takes away the 10-8 award.
After all is said and done, both fighters landed 30 strikes in round one. It's hard to make a case for a 10-8 round when the numbers don't lie.
After three rounds the # of strikes landed was 169/55 in favor of Condit.
As usual with MMA rules, I think it comes down to interpretation. I respect your opinion and I'm not arguing as I started this thread with the intention of hearing everyone's thoughts on this.
Personally, even if a guy comes back and mounts some offense, if there are two times he gets blasted on the feet so hard that it looks like he's completely out (and I also commend the ref for this), and also eats a handful of other clean blows that have him on the defensive for a good part of the round... IMO that's "dominating" a round by striking.
But, then again... what constitutes a 10-7 round? Here's the description for 10-8 and 10-7:
3. A round is to be scored as a 10-8 Round when a contestant overwhelmingly dominates by striking or grappling in a round.
4. A round is to be scored as a 10-7 Round when a contestant totally dominates by striking or grappling in a round.
So the entire difference between those two is whatever the interpretation of "overwhelmingly" dominating a round and "totally" dominating a round is. It's a little too subjective, IMO.
As usual with MMA rules, I think it comes down to interpretation. I respect your opinion and I'm not arguing as I started this thread with the intention of hearing everyone's thoughts on this.
Personally, even if a guy comes back and mounts some offense, if there are two times he gets blasted on the feet so hard that it looks like he's completely out (and I also commend the ref for this), and also eats a handful of other clean blows that have him on the defensive for a good part of the round... IMO that's "dominating" a round by striking.
But, then again... what constitutes a 10-7 round? Here's the description for 10-8 and 10-7:
3. A round is to be scored as a 10-8 Round when a contestant overwhelmingly dominates by striking or grappling in a round. 4. A round is to be scored as a 10-7 Round when a contestant totally dominates by striking or grappling in a round.
So the entire difference between those two is whatever the interpretation of "overwhelmingly" dominating a round and "totally" dominating a round is. It's a little too subjective, IMO.
Actually, he only "dominated" for about a minute of that round and it was in the middle of the round. To constitute a 10-8 you have to dominate the WHOLE round.
Barbs666 - Sorry guys. Sucks to say but under the current guidelines, that first round doesn't constitute to being a 10-8 round. Although it was an extremely impressive round for Jake, for a round to be a 10-8 a fighter has to have complete control and pretty much dominate the round from start to finish. Carlos was dropped and close to being finished a couple of times but did manage to continue and was able to takedown and mount Jake and do some damage and threaten with subs.
Whatever ones opinion may be, following the current rules this is NOT a 10-8 round.
Actually, you're completely incorrect on your analysis of what constitutes a 10-8 round.
3. A round is to be scored as a 10-8 Round when a contestant overwhelmingly dominates by striking or grappling in a round.
Ellenberger overwhelmingly dominated the striking in that round.
10-8
by the way the rule reads it was 10-9 it was not overwheling there were several momentum changes in the1st round
Well if you even have people impartial to the actual fighters sherdog.com (which actually kind of bashed Jake and had condit winning by TKO in rd. 1 I think) Had 2 judges call it a draw and one have Ellenberger winning 29-28, and mmajunkie.com had it 29-28 Ellenberger, that looks to me like Jake won that fight from 2 sources who know MMA very well, and are impartial to either fighter, unlike all of us on here.
Either way, great fight, and the stock of Jake Ellenberger is now way higher than it was. Many people were very impressed by Jake and his hands. His stay in the UFC will last a while.