I think Cro cop can beat Lesnar

Underground
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YumYumPandaburger - Even current Crocop has much better defensive wrestling and grappling than Mir. Mir was pounded out by several guys, even 205er Vera. Crocop has never been abused on the ground like that.


Good points, but Mir doesn't need defensive wrestling/grappling like Crocop, cause he wants to go to the ground (which I'm sure you're aware of). There aren't many opponents or situations where I can imagine Mir would want to stay upright, at least like Crocop, ya know?

As for being pounded out like Mir, I think Crocop could very well find himself in that situation, but I DO agree with you that he has infinitely better defense on the ground than Mir (I could rant about Mir's crappy defense on the ground...it's a serious pet peeve of mine). Plus, Crocop is crafty and creative viz. defensive grappling; I knew he was gonna pull out some shit vs. Fedor, but DAMN that crazy bicycle kick shit was something else. OTOH, Lesnar makes most of Crocop's MMA opponents look like...well, a tired Ron Waterman...

After rewatching Lesnar/Mir 2 (I hardly ever drink anymore, and I ALWAYS get stuck driving with most of my douche bag friends, so when I'm not driving like the other night, and I have an empty stomach...oy gvelt...), I'm so much more impressed than I have been since...uh...waking up Sunday. Lesnar was crafty and creative on the ground, way more than people wanna give him credit for, at least. I mean that was some borderline Fedor-type creativity bein' dished out by a friggin' super mutant straight outta Fallout 3. And he punches JUST AS HARD...NAH, FUCK THAT, HE PUNCHES HARDER THAN FEDOR, using the same type of sick ass technique with way more weight and muscle behind it. I was seriously cringing every time Mir got hit. Crocop would CRUMBLE from those shots.

I don't see Crocop beating Lesnar. Just don't see it happenin'. Regarding more reasons:

brock hasnt been put in front of someone with the ko power that crocop has, and i also think he has shown his chin might not be granite after all. a good striker who can avoid getting put on his back has the advantage against brock i think. if crocop can stay off his back, or at least punish him everytime he gets takendown and survives the ground game, by the 3rd round he will ko him.


Crocop's serious KO power is in his sick ass high and mid kicks (He hardly ever throws low kicks unless against another lefty, and even then he's skittish...I think it's cuz of old injuries).

His punches are fast and powerful--PAINFUL, cringe inducing ass to be sure, but not the kind of power that typically knocks a guy out, especially a guy with no neck. He hit Sapp hard enough to make his fucking eye socket explode, yet Sapp was totally lucid. He just sat there goin' "huh...something doesn't feel right..." for a second before doing the "AHHHHH! REFEREE! MOMMY! THAT FUCKING COCK SUCKER EXPLODED MY FACE!!!"

Not to mention that he tends to be a center of the ring type fighter, not a runner or a guy with great footwork. He stays on his feet with that crazy sprawl and his strength. When he fights a guy who knows better than to shoot from 5-6 feet away (I don't know why anyone does that textbook wrestling double leg in MMA anymore...), and just comes at him and clinches ASAP (like Barnett and Fedor...and Sakuraba!), he gets taken down.

And like I already said, I can totally see Brock taggin him with a right hand and just crumpling his ass, something that's actually likely to happen given that Crocop's a southpaw who tends to leave himself open to a crazy right hand, that he has no chin (It's like he's a puffed up welterweight like Hoost or something), AND he isn't exactly the toughest guy when it comes to taking a shot. I see him definitely getting KTFO from GnP.

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 "A chance but not an "excellent" chance, based on looking at ALL of Cro Cop's fights and not just the one that suits you."



I'm looking at the one that's most analogous. A gigantic brute-force type wrestler. Waterman, like Brock, wasn't looking to set up some sweet shot, he just bulled into Mirko and dragged him down. Maybe if you tell me what percentage chance qualifies as "excellent" I can tell you if I should have chosen a different word :P



"Prime" Cro Cop was only taken down a handful of times despite having fought some great takedown artists"



Nogueira, Sakuraba, Waterman, Fedor, Barnett, Gonzaga, Overeem. Brock is a better wrestler than all of them except Sakuraba, who is half his size, and is bigger than all of them except Waterman (maybe). I just don't see a whole lot of reason to think Crocop would be able to keep it standing.

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I don't like Cro Cops chances at all........and Roger? Even less of a chance. I don't think Rogers BJJ can be that far ahead of Mirs that he wouldn't take the same beating that Mir took.

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Styro - brock hasnt been put in front of someone with the ko power that crocop has, and i also think he has shown his chin might not be granite after all.


 Please tell me where to find a a video of Brock getting rocked and dazed?  Do you mean where Mir hit him with a knee and Brock calmly took him down and pounded out the victory about 30 seconds later?  Is that what we call "rocked" nowadays?

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Considering he said after the fight he saw tweedy birds from that knee that kinda means he was rocked was a dumb knee by Mir tho considering how the first round went to give him top position

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I like Cro Cop as much as the next guy, but he had a horseshoe up his ass when he beat Dos Caras Jr.

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Mirko is tailor made for Lesnar. Takedown and pound out easily by Lesnar in round 1...and I HATE Brock.

What you need to beat Brock is a guy who is either equally big, strong and good at wrestling (Carwin) or someone who is just infinitely better and faster (Fedor).

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God, you have to love the CC nuthuggers

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CC can't seem to beat anyone in the UFC...let alone the champ! lol

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RyannVonDoom - 
fishluv - Hell I think Velasquez has a decent chance.

 too small IMO.
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I don't see CC stopping Brock's takedowns. Brock's speed, size and technique will put CC on his back whenever he wants.

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I want to see a big strong dude match Lesnars power and see what he has when this is equaled....
I want to see him hit a few times see if he has heart or a chin....
I want to see him gassed.

Lashley, Cro, Cain, Overeem, Fedor, AA, Roger G... they all have a shot.

Really how well has a guy with 5 fights been tested?

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 imo we havent seen brock hit hard yet. he may have a chin of stone, or of glass...

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Id hazard a guess and said werdum or gonzaga could give him trouble

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bam57bam - God, you have to love the CC nuthuggers


i don't have to love them, but agree they are nuthuggers

hilarious how people keep talking about "the cro cop of old"

you mean the one who got knocked dead by Kevin Randleman?

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unity - I think Cro Cop vs Lesnar would look just like Forrest vs Tito



round 1 - lesnar takes cro cop down, does a little ground and pound, cop gets up, lesnar takes him down again



round 2 - lesnar shoots, cro cop sprawls, over and over, cro cop brutalizes lesnar with his boxing



round 3 - cro cop by a brutal knockout!
Apparently in some alternate universe Forrest "brutalized" Tito with his boxing, and then won by "brutal" knockout in the 3rd.  Fucking "Brutal" man!

 

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definitely possible cro cop beats lesnar

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orcus -  "A chance but not an "excellent" chance, based on looking at ALL of Cro Cop's fights and not just the one that suits you."

I'm looking at the one that's most analogous. A gigantic brute-force type wrestler. Waterman, like Brock, wasn't looking to set up some sweet shot, he just bulled into Mirko and dragged him down. Maybe if you tell me what percentage chance qualifies as "excellent" I can tell you if I should have chosen a different word :P

"Prime" Cro Cop was only taken down a handful of times despite having fought some great takedown artists"

Nogueira, Sakuraba, Waterman, Fedor, Barnett, Gonzaga, Overeem. Brock is a better wrestler than all of them except Sakuraba, who is half his size, and is bigger than all of them except Waterman (maybe). I just don't see a whole lot of reason to think Crocop would be able to keep it standing.


Again, you give examples that suit you and ignore the ones that don't. Lesnar being a better wrestler than the fighters you listed doesn't mean too much, since Coleman and Randleman are far better wrestlers too but they could not take Cro Cop down. Did they just magically lose all their takedown prowess those nights? Or is it that even if you can stuff 95% of takedown attempts against you, you will still get taken down occasionally.

Also, by listing the fighters you did you only undermine your own attempt to argue that it was Waterman being a giant wrestler that enabled him to get Cro Cop down. Nogueira, Sakuraba, Waterman, Fedor, Barnett, Gonzaga, Overeem have NOTHING in common at all as far as takedown style or ability.

As I said in a previous post, Cro Cop has great takedown defense, but no one is invulnerable to takedowns, just like no is invulnerable to being caught and knocked out. EVERYONE (except Hunt) wants to take Cro Cop down. Of course, some will succeed.

It's an open question how much more or less success Lesnar would have at taking "Prime" Cro Cop down. (Current post-knee injury Cro Cop does not look nearly as good.) Again, Mark Coleman has never failed to take an opponent down, except for Cro Cop.

As for what "excellent" means ... On a percentage basis, Lesnar has been submitted as frequently as Cro Cop has been taken down, and has been submitted in 50% of his fights against a submission specialist. Does this mean whenever Lesnar fights he has an "excellent" chance of getting submitted?

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If/When he loses it will be a style loss. I mean someone who has that one tactic that CockChestnar can't deal with. He aint going to be beaten physically by anyone.