orcus its a fucking tournement ur rationalizing is pathetic
orcus - ...how many would still say the winner was #1 in the world? Just curious.WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT RANKINGS (205-265lbs)
For example, if Strikeforce said merely that Kharitonov was going to take two fights and then get a title shot -- would you say he was #1 in the world if he won the belt? Keep in mind that he is 3-3 in the last four years with losses to Alistair, Jeff Monson, and Aleksander; and that his only significant career win is Werdum, in a win almost as shitty as Arlovski's over Werdum.
Or Arlovski. 0-3 in his last three, KTFO in two of those, beaten twice by Tim who is his only significant career win other than that abomination of a fight with Werdum.
Or Rogers. Not much need be said there.
Or, let's consider Werdum. He beat Fedor IN HIS LAST FIGHT. He already beat Alistair. He already beat Bigfoot. But, for some reason, almost none of you consider him #1 in the world right now. Yet, oddly, you would if he or any other entrant else beat the EXACT SAME GUYS "in the tournament". I'm really curious to hear the rationale for this -- OBVIOUSLY you don't really subscribe to the "linear" ranking model, or you would all necessarily have Werdum at #1 already, yet at the same time you seem to think WHOEVER wins this "tournament" will Highlander-style be the best in the world as though he actually beat everyone in it.
It's really pretty fascinating. It's also hilariously ironic, in that many of you love to say "Zuffa shills" believe whatever Dana tells them, yet here you are, totally bowled over by Coker calling this a "tournament". You really ate up that "talking point"!
Only way I can make a case for anyone to be number one is if jds beats Cain and carwin and werdum wins the strikeforce tournament. If that happens jds has to be clear cut #1 heavyweight.
Out of curiosity, why not if CAIN beats Dos Santos and Carwin and Werdum wins the tournament? Cain would be an undefeated fighter who beat the guy who destroyed Werdum -- Strikeforce's best -- in seconds, and would have dominating wins over EVERY type of fighter. In fact, whatever one thinks as far as rankings go, if Cain beats Dos Santos and Werdum wins the Strikeforce tournament, Cain would, in my mind, be "the best fighter in the world".
MrHenson -
Is that Mike Kyle?
This is a real tournament: Modeled after Showtime Super Six and Showtime Bantamweight tournaments. In those Boxing tournaments the seeding was not set with the strongest vs the weakest.
It's a tournament for the following reasons: (Wikipedia for resource)
1. One or more competitions held at a single venue and concentrated into a relatively short time interval.
2.A competition involving multiple matches, each involving a subset of the competitors, with the overall tournament winner determined based on the combined results of these individual matches.
Sadly, in MMA with org restricted fighters a "clear" number one can not be determined unlike in Boxing it is much easier.
But it is a tournament and a great one at that. The winner will be Showtimes' Grand Prix tournament winner.
After all is said in done I have two choices, I can
A: Use my own mind to decide who I feel is the clear number one at heavywieght
or
B: Rely on a stranger who posts on a forum multiple times trying to convince a small group of people what to think
obvious choice: A..
orcus -Only way I can make a case for anyone to be number one is if jds beats Cain and carwin and werdum wins the strikeforce tournament. If that happens jds has to be clear cut #1 heavyweight.
Out of curiosity, why not if CAIN beats Dos Santos and Carwin and Werdum wins the tournament? Cain would be an undefeated fighter who beat the guy who destroyed Werdum -- Strikeforce's best -- in seconds, and would have dominating wins over EVERY type of fighter. In fact, whatever one thinks as far as rankings go, if Cain beats Dos Santos and Werdum wins the Strikeforce tournament, Cain would, in my mind, be "the best fighter in the world".
Always keep in mind...World Contender Rankings and "Best Of" lists are 2 different things.
Winston Wolf - orcus its a fucking tournement ur rationalizing is pathetic
Like many here, you are bizarrely defensive about this discussion.
I am asking how does knowing that whoever the champ is, he will fight, down the line, whichever of Barnett/Kharitonov/Rogers/Arlovski manages to get two wins, any more meaningful or exciting than if those four guys weren't drawn in a pretty bracket graphic? How and why does the label of "tournament" change your perception of how significant the fights are?
A: Use my own mind to decide who I feel is the clear number one at heavywieght
or
B: Rely on a stranger who posts on a forum multiple times trying to convince a small group of people what to think
Did I tell you who the clear #1 is, or are you just building a strawman because you are defensive of your personal response to the label "tournament" and do not welcome any discussion about it?
orcus -Winston Wolf - orcus its a fucking tournement ur rationalizing is pathetic
Like many here, you are bizarrely defensive about this discussion.
I am asking how does knowing that whoever the champ is, he will fight, down the line, whichever of Barnett/Kharitonov/Rogers/Arlovski manages to get two wins, any more meaningful or exciting than if those four guys weren't drawn in a pretty bracket graphic? How and why does the label of "tournament" change your perception of how significant the fights are?
you might not like how the brackets are done and could argue they should do seeding But u can do that when u run ur own TOURNEMENT.
you might not like how the brackets are done and could argue they should do seeding But u can do that when u run ur own TOURNEMENT.
Do you have any thoughts about the questions and ideas posted in the OP, or did you just chime in because you get upset whenever anyone mentions this tournament in anything but a fawning context?
"Did I tell you who the clear #1 is, or are you just building a strawman because you are defensive of your personal response to the label "tournament" and do not welcome any discussion about it?You read too much into that. It's very simple: my thoughts, opinions, and decisions are more important than yours.
Does it bother you that I have deicided what I want to think?
Not at all. However, I haven't heard yet what you think, at least not in regards to the stuff posed in my initial post. All I know about what you think is that you think this is a tournament, which answers a question not asked in this thread.
If someone on the left side of the bracket wins, I'll consider them #1, and I would anyway if they got the wins they will have to get to win.
Do you consider Werdum to be #1 currently? If not, is it really a win over Alistair -- who looks impressive but has done nothing of significance in MMA -- that will put him there for you?
orcus -you might not like how the brackets are done and could argue they should do seeding But u can do that when u run ur own TOURNEMENT.
Do you have any thoughts about the questions and ideas posted in the OP, or did you just chime in because you get upset whenever anyone mentions this tournament in anything but a fawning context?
ya i do FRAT
Winston Wolf with plenty of great contributions! Mis-spelled posts that have nothing to do with anything that has been said in this thread, which he admits he hasn't read.
Always a pleasure, bro.
ok i tried to read the op but its still a fucking tournement Doesnt necesarilly mean the winner is #1 we have to see how it unfolds The idea is great and it is epic.Best tournement since the Grand Prix
im not a Rhodes scholar what is fawning ? sounds like something to do with a deer
good post Zamiel
I'd no longer have Fedor ahead of Werdum if Werdum wins the tourney,
This is what I mean about putting lots of stock in the tournament label.
If Werdum is not #1 now, why would beating Alistair -- who has no significant wins in MMA except the win over Kharitonov who smashed him in the rematch -- make him #1?
If Werdum were not #1 at that point, why would defending his title against Fedor or Bigfoot -- both of whom he has beaten, in his last two fights -- make him #1?
And if he somehow still weren't #1, why would defending his title against Barnett or Kharitonov or Arlovski -- clearly, greatly inferior competition to the guys he had already beaten -- do so?
Or is it just the idea that while Werdum is getting these three good wins, we are assuming no one else in the division will accomplish anything and he will rise to #1 by default?
In this tournament:
Currently in Strikeforce roster:
1. Werdum
2 Interchangeable; Fedor ( who is a legend) & Overeem
3. Big Foot
4. Interchangeable: AA, Kharitonov,Barnett
5.Rogers
Would it change my thoughts of who is number one if it was not a tournament?
No it would not.
People look at each fight and see the skill level of the competitor per match then decide.
No honest and healthy man or women will argue with this.