If it weren't called a tournament

ttt

As for me, here are my thoughts:

If Alistair defends his title against Werdum and Fedor/Bigfoot, he will be #1 in the world (for whatever that's worth). He will also be my pick for best heavyweight in the world until we see Cain/JDS -- if Cain wins that one, it will be a toss-up between Alistair and Cain, with me leaning toward Cain due to high-level wrestling generally being a more effective tool against a wider variety of opponents in MMA than high-level striking, and also because he will be undefeated with wins over EVERY type of fighter. If JDS wins, I will probably still lean toward Alistair.

If Werdum wins those fights, he should be ranked #1 on any kind of "objective" list that goes by record (he should ALREADY be #1 on lists based on linear transference), but I would not consider him the best. That goes for Bigfoot and Fedor as well.

If someone on the right side of the bracket wins all three fights, I will not consider him the best, and while he should be ranked #1 on any kind of linear rankings list, I'm not sure his record as a whole would justify being placed at #1 on lists that rank by that criteria (this kind of ranking should still currently have Fedor in the top spot, as he still has the best record).

In any case, for me, calling it a tournament does nothing to increase the signficance of the fights, and the winner of the first two title fights will be taking a step down in competition for the third title fight, which makes that whole right side of the bracket pretty irrelevant to me.

OP Nailed it. Vtfu.

So many strikeforce idiots/anti ufc have been creaming their pants over a tourney that wont even be able to be completed. Contract renogations between fights will keep this tourney from completion.

People look at each fight and see the skill level of the competitor per match then decide.
No honest and healthy man or women will argue with this.


Not sure that's true.

Most here have said "whoever wins this tournament is #1", which clearly lends a lot of weight to the tournament as an idea.

But again, look at Werdum. He beat Bigfoot and Fedor and almost no one considers him #1 -- neither here, nor any of the "MMA media". It wasn't called a tournament, but he beat the two best/most proven guys in SF. Why would doing it again for Werdum, or why would someone else doing essentially the same thing, claim the top spot then?

It's a fact that whoever wins the left side of the bracket will ALREADY have beaten the best guys in Strikeforce and thus the final fight will do nothing to further elevate him; meanwhile, whoever wins the right side will have two decent but not huge wins (not one of those guys is top 10 on any rankings I've seen), and so can at best get a single BIG win over the current SF #1 -- which wasn't enough for Werdum to take the top spot when he beat Fedor.

So if it's not the "tournament" label that is being given extra weight, what is it?

Look at it this way: Who is #1 now? Who will be #1 after the first round? Who after the second? If the #1 spot is somehow up for grabs now -- which seems odd since surely all of us have SOMEONE there now -- then how many rounds will be necessary to determine it, and is it the same for each entrant (obviously not)?

 Can't you guys all bitch about rank and Strikeforces fail, AFTER they actually do or don't do this ?

BeeTrain - Orcus, u r missing the point. It's not that it's b/c it's a so called 'tournament' that will dictate who's #1. It's b/c of the following:1) if werdum wins 3 straight, he erases anyone's doubt that his win vs. Fedor was a fluke, and that he's a so called UFC castoff. 2) if overeem wins 3 straight, he avenges a loss, beats fedor and answers all ??'s re: his legitamacy around his MMA game and 3) if fedor should win, he'll prove all the doubters wrong that a) his management cherry picks his opponents and b) he avenged his loss to werdum or conquered Ubereem, thus propelling him(eventually) to 3 SOLID victories w/in one year's time for the,now, #2 top HW in the world. That puts him at #1 IMO <img src="/images/phone/post_tag.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


So then most of us agree that "the tournament" doesn't really determine anything; what does is the two fights won by the guy on the left side of the bracket. Or, "Strikeforce's next two title fights".

Yet I can't help but get the impression that far fewer would say "SF's next two title fights decide #1 in the world" than now say "this tournament will decide #1 in the world"; and maybe that's because "beating a stacked tournament field" sounds more impressive than "two title fights between guys half of whom are not in the top 5", even when the fights are exactly the same.


I agree with OP. The only real arguement for #1 is if fedor avenges his loss to werdum then beats barnett, but even then, I give #1 to jds vs velasquez winner. Phone Post

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orcus - ...how many would still say the winner was #1 in the world? Just curious.

For example, if Strikeforce said merely that Kharitonov was going to take two fights and then get a title shot -- would you say he was #1 in the world if he won the belt? Keep in mind that he is 3-3 in the last four years with losses to Alistair, Jeff Monson, and Aleksander; and that his only significant career win is Werdum, in a win almost as shitty as Arlovski's over Werdum.

Or Arlovski. 0-3 in his last three, KTFO in two of those, beaten twice by Tim who is his only significant career win other than that abomination of a fight with Werdum.

Or Rogers. Not much need be said there.

Or, let's consider Werdum. He beat Fedor IN HIS LAST FIGHT. He already beat Alistair. He already beat Bigfoot. But, for some reason, almost none of you consider him #1 in the world right now. Yet, oddly, you would if he or any other entrant else beat the EXACT SAME GUYS "in the tournament". I'm really curious to hear the rationale for this -- OBVIOUSLY you don't really subscribe to the "linear" ranking model, or you would all necessarily have Werdum at #1 already, yet at the same time you seem to think WHOEVER wins this "tournament" will Highlander-style be the best in the world as though he actually beat everyone in it.

It's really pretty fascinating. It's also hilariously ironic, in that many of you love to say "Zuffa shills" believe whatever Dana tells them, yet here you are, totally bowled over by Coker calling this a "tournament". You really ate up that "talking point"!



I thought this tourney was to determine the best in SF, not the best in the world. And ya I'd put Werdum at the top of the SF heap right now Alistair and Fedor are both legit guys that could rematch and take that position from Werdum.

Bellator tournament is not a real tourney according to the OP

Winston Wolf - orcus its a fucking tournement ur rationalizing is pathetic


its like he's saying all tourney sucks and when Lesnar fought Couture for the title, it was one of the most legit way to know who's the best HW in the world..