My Instructor when we grapple applies illegal sport JJ and pankration moves on me.
He applies chokes by directly squeezing my throat with his hand or pushing against my throat to cause loss of breath. This doesn't seem very ethical to apply to a newbie. He should be applying RNC properly against me and blood choking me.
My neck is over 18 inches though and I have a good RNC defence...but why should a student have to tap out to a throat crush?
He also Neck Cranks me too. Why should a student have to tap to neck cranks and throat crushes? I checked the rules for the local no-gi submission grappling tournaments and bjj tournaments, and they don't allow neck cranks or throat crushes.
This if fucked up. I think what is happening is that I'm 50 pounds bigger than him, and overpowering his triangles and rear naked chokes, so he neck cranks and and throat crushes me instead.
dude, man up.
1) Either bitch to him about it
2) Deal w/ it
I promise you that your competition will do the same thing to you... even if it is illegal.
Why do instructors teach bicep slicers and calf crushers and has everyone use them in class but they are illegal? I would say because they are part of the total game, it's not all just sport.
I don't mind if a instructor is teaching a calf crusher or neck cranks/crushes to the students, as long as he teaches counters as well. What pisses me off is he's doing cranks, and crushes to white belts during sparring, but hasn't taught us/me how to counter it. And the moves aren't even legal in tournaments and yet he's applying crushes to me? Im 50 pounds heavier, maybe I should slam him on his head and tell him "it's not all sport".
There is a difference between teaching the move, and then applying it to white belts during randori or sparring. How do newbies learn anything if higher belts have to resort to applying pain holds to tap out white belts?
If you're going to apply illegal moves during sparring, at least teach the student first how to apply it and get out of it.
I love it when my instructor taps me with something "illegal" especially when I didn't see it coming. Usually its something really simple and I learn a lot from it.
The main difference between your situation and mine seems to be that I trust my instructor implicitly. I know he's usually just messing around and is playing around when he rolls with me. (He's a black, I'm a blue.) He could probably tap me a number of ways, but he lets me play my game and when he see a big hole he points it out, even with an "illegal", choke, crank, or whatever.
As long as you aren't getting your elbows popped or seriously injured, forget about the "rules" jiu jitsu isn't just for tournaments. It's for fun, and getting tapped is part of the fun, especially in the beginning.
So lighten up, laugh it off, and tap. No big deal.
"maybe I should slam him on his head and tell him "it's not all sport"
LOL! Please do and report back with the result.
You should just ask him. Next time he does something like that, ask if that move is legal in competitions, and if he answers no, then ask if it's ok to do them in practice etc.
If you are just a white belt you aren't going to learn every counter right away. Rome wasn't built in a day. You act like you should have already been taught every counter by now. Stop crying you sound like a little girl. I say slam your teacher and say what you want to him, but I bet he cranks your arm and injures you if you can even get him up into a slam. This doesn't sound like a sport for you. I think you should take up checkers or something.
I'm wondering what the instructor's perspective is.
If I were the instructor, and a new student who outweighed me by 50 pounds was "overpowering [my] triangles and rear naked chokes" (which usually means "spazzing" and "going 200% at all times"), then I would be doing the following:
1) explaining that we are just training, and that this is not the UFC. I'd offer to roll lightly so that the student can see the benefits of non-aggro-neanderthal-style rolling.
2) If he doesn't take the cue, then I'd say "OK, did you want to roll harder? You start, and I will match your intensity level", at which point the fist-on-the-neck choke marathon would begin. Also, I would alternate with the good ol' chestlock-from-sidemount submission, just to make sure he gets tired.
Aaaaaaaaaaand if we're being trolled, it's a good trolling.
that was harsh Bjj... =P
I thought my "Man up" was sufficient...
He's probably just frustrated and shocked that BJJ isn't what he though- I was the same way too- for about 2 years i thought if someone didnt apply a submission with perfect technique then they were somehow "cheating"
It's not all light, fluffy, with perfect locks and submissions.
dd, bud, you'll get the hang of it, then the "bitch" moves won't matter to you anymore. you'll learn that BJJ isn't as soft as it seems- Just wait until you take the gi off... the game goes about 10x faster, hurts more, and requires a LOT more athleticism... and bitch moves are more frequent...
I just think he is over reacting. He wants to know every counter and he just started and it seems his ego is getting hurt more than his body and he can't take it. This isn't a sport for a person with a fragile ego.
twinkletoesCT: I'm not spazzing out of moves, I was 3 months ago though, but not now. I actually try to use as little energy as possible, I don't go 200 percent.
He has never told me I'm being a spazz or being Agro.
"Just wait until you take the gi off... the game goes about 10x faster, hurts more, and requires a LOT more athleticism... and bitch moves are more frequent..."
That's what I'm training currently -- no gi.
bjjprim8: I could slam him if I wanted to, but I haven't, yet he popped my neck the other day doing a fucking neck crank. That doesn't sound reciprocal.
I'm trying to be non-agro because I'm 50 pounds bigger, yet he's using cranks, crushes etc, yet I don't apply slams, crushes or cranks because A: i don't want to injure him, and B: you can't even apply them in pankration or Bjj, or no gi submission grappling tournament.
Are you preparing for a tournament? If you are then sit down with your instructor and explain that you are preparing for it and he needs to help you by sparring according to the rules.
The hand against the throat pressure is probably not as harsh as the 'ten finger guillotine' which drives the knuckles into your larnyx/throat directly.
As long as he isn't actually injuring you it is a good opportunity to learn defences against different types of attacks that you may encounter again, wether in a sportive situation or not. Use this as a reason to ferret out defences to these types of attacks, and then shut them down in sparring.
"I'm not spazzing out of moves, I was 3 months ago though, but not now"
What a difference three months make. So now he can't tap you because you have learned to stall and use your 50 lb weight advantage.
Find a bigger instructor who will smash you. You'll feel better.
You should feel lucky that you don't have an instructor obsessed with BJJ tournaments.
Who gives a shit what is and isn't legal there.
You should be more worried about learning from your instructor than what he is tapping you with. I doubt you and your 18' neck will progress much in bjj.
Whats the instructors level?
If your intensity if high your teacher should still be able to match but shouldnt be resorting to illegal moves.
"Whats the instructors level?
If your intensity if high your teacher should still be able to match but shouldnt be resorting to illegal moves."
That's the thing, He trained no-gi grappling under a Brown Belt -- in JJJ, not BJJ. He knows BJJ, and catch wrestling though but he hasn't trained with any high ranking BJJ'ers. His lineage isn't very good.
This is the BJJ board. Don't you think you should have told us this guy wasn't a BJJ instructor.
If you want to learn BJJ, go find a BJJ instructor. Come back here in 6 months.