You think Dan hardy is a tougher 170lber than Kenny Florian is a 155'er? Rampage has lost to both the guys he faced from the TUF house, so they may not be as easy to beat as you think. You also seem to miss the irony that the one guy that GSP faced from the TUF house KTFO him.
Is coming from the "tuf house" supposed to make you a bad fighter or something?
were talking about a division that was created out of thin air,and tuf used there show to market and essentially "create" a lw division,how many outside lw's came into the ufc? Most came from the tuf house and this was BJ's primary opponent fighter pool for a while.
Youd expect the occasional tuf'er to contend for a title but in the case of the lw division it was 90 percent of its talent pool,alot different then one guy rising to the top against the odds in another division to get a title shot,tuf guys fighting tuf guys,winner gets BJ,wash,rinse and repeat
eljamaiquino - You think Dan hardy is a tougher 170lber than Kenny Florian is a 155'er? Rampage has lost to both the guys he faced from the TUF house, so they may not be as easy to beat as you think. You also seem to miss the irony that the one guy that GSP faced from the TUF house KTFO him.
no i dont,this was GSP's easiest opponent by a mile though.We could go opponent by opponent if youd like,but i think you know the outcome so i dont want to waste your time
anyways lets not get off topic
Brock75thRanger - were talking about a division that was created out of thin air,and tuf used there show to market and essentially "create" a lw division,how many outside lw's came into the ufc? Most came from the tuf house and this was BJ's primary opponent fighter pool for a while.LOL at this dipshit suggesting that the lightweight division is "out of thin air"...
Youd expect the occasional tuf'er to contend for a title but in the case of the lw division it was 90 percent of its talent pool,alot different then one guy rising to the top against the odds in another division to get a title shot,tuf guys fighting tuf guys,winner gets BJ,wash,rinse and repeat
Sorry bub... but the LW division is among the MOST STACKED in the entire UFC.
And before you talk smack about TUF... just remember that it was a fighter from TUF that is a natural lightweight who KO'd your hero GSP in the First Round.
Edger would certainly be up there, and if the defends a couple of times after, yes.
GSP is most certainly the greatest WW ever. He destroyed Hughes and BJ Penn in their primes and went on a very nice win streak, second best win streak after Anderson. GSP is probably the #1 P4P as well.
With the collapse of Pride, the UFC has by far the greatest % of top notch MMA fighters on the planet. Thus the competition is tougher because essentially all the top fighters come to the UFC.
Entreri - Edger would certainly be up there, and if the defends a couple of times after, yes.Actually - he lost to Matt Hughes when he was in his prime...
GSP is most certainly the greatest WW ever. He destroyed Hughes and BJ Penn in their primes and went on a very nice win streak, second best win streak after Anderson. GSP is probably the #1 P4P as well.
With the collapse of Pride, the UFC has by far the greatest % of top notch MMA fighters on the planet. Thus the competition is tougher because essentially all the top fighters come to the UFC.
The only guy to beat Hughes in his PRIME was BJ...
Edited to add: Matt Hughes (finishing record):
The most important measure IMO is FINISHES.
- BJ FINISHED 10/11 of his WINS. That is 91%
- MATT HUGHES FINISHED 35/45 of his WINS. That is 78%
- GSP FINISHED 13/20 of his WINS. That is 65%.
- EDGAR FINISHED 3/12 of his WINS. That is 25%.
This is NOT EVEN CLOSE. If you look at GSPs fights since his loss to Serra...
- GSP finished only 3/7 fights. That is 43%.
- If you net out the 2 natural LW's he fought (BJ and Serra)...
- GSP FINISHED 1/5 of his WINS. That is a finish rate of 20%.
What it means... is since the Serra loss, GSP has only managed to finish only 1 natural welterweight.
yea we get it,BJ is a better finisher then GSP.GSP is the better winner,the goal of a contest is to win,the goal to entertain lionsoul is to finish,im sure GSP isnt to dissapointed with his consilation prize
lionsoul -Brock75thRanger - were talking about a division that was created out of thin air,and tuf used there show to market and essentially "create" a lw division,how many outside lw's came into the ufc? Most came from the tuf house and this was BJ's primary opponent fighter pool for a while.LOL at this dipshit suggesting that the lightweight division is "out of thin air"...
Youd expect the occasional tuf'er to contend for a title but in the case of the lw division it was 90 percent of its talent pool,alot different then one guy rising to the top against the odds in another division to get a title shot,tuf guys fighting tuf guys,winner gets BJ,wash,rinse and repeat
Sorry bub... but the LW division is among the MOST STACKED in the entire UFC.
And before you talk smack about TUF... just remember that it was a fighter from TUF that is a natural lightweight who KO'd your hero GSP in the First Round.
Matt Serra was in the ufc before tuf.I dont agree that the lw division is even close to the most stacked in the ufc when the top 2 fighters both have about 10 fights,Edgar and Maynard,the guy who is being called a legend is 3 and 3 in his last 6 fights and was raped by florian.
Its competitive yes,that doesnt mean its stacked.Many 155ers are 170 castaways,the bottom line is not a single 155er could move up to 170 and make any noise.Frankie is a natural 145er and beat the best 155 has to offer.
Ill flat out say it,i think its a weak division.Dont confuse competitive with stacked
Greatest of all time? This thread has to be a joke, right? Far too early to even consider.
Only a truly narrow-perspectived and overreactive noob - or a truly biased, agenda-driven extremist like orcus (motivated as usual by his notorious and obsessive dislike for BJ) - would even reasonably argue that Edgar would already be the greatest LW "of all time."
Frankie has not finished a single top fighter in his entire career. Not one.
Edgar has also beaten one top-5 fighter for his entire career - and it was by a close and controversial decision, which many, if not most, felt should not have gone his way to begin with. And yet a close and controversial decision (and certainly not a dominant win at all) is still ultimately the basis for him even becoming the current #1 in the first place.
The only even-arguably top-10 LW that Edgar has ever even clearly and decisively beaten was Sherk.
If Frankie actually dominantly, or at least clearly and decisively, beats BJ this time - then that would be his FIRST such definitive win over a top-5 LW for his career.
How in the fuck would that already make him the greatest LW "of all time"? It would make him the consensus best LW NOW - but "of all time"? (And no, Frankie is obviously not generally considered the best LW even now, despite his current consensus #1 ranking - as evidenced by the fact that he is still the clear underdog going into the rematch with BJ, whom most people are picking and still consider "better" than Edgar.)
And even with a reaffirming win over BJ - what kind of dominant reign will Edgar have already had? BJ and Gomi will still have had longer, more sustained and dominant reigns, as had Sato, Uno, and Pulver, the first three #1 LW's in MMA history.
Whereas Edgar will have just made his first defense as the #1, and if he can actually decisively and uncontroversially beat BJ this time - again, it would still be his FIRST such win over a top-5 LW for his entire career. How would that already qualify as the greatest "of all time"?
whistleblower - Only a truly narrow-perspectived and overreactive noob - or a truly biased, agenda-driven extremist like orcus (motivated as usual by his notorious and obsessive dislike for BJ) - would even reasonably argue that Edgar would already be the greatest LW "of all time."I would vote this up if I hadn't used up my allotment already.
Frankie has not finished a single top fighter in his entire career. Not one.
Edgar has also beaten one top-5 fighter for his entire career - and it was by a close and controversial decision, which many, if not most, felt should not have gone his way to begin with. And yet a close and controversial decision (and certainly not a dominant win at all) is still ultimately the basis for him even becoming the current #1 in the first place.
The only even-arguably top-10 LW that Edgar has ever even clearly and decisively beaten was Sherk.
If Frankie actually dominantly, or at least clearly and decisively, beats BJ this time - then that would be his FIRST such definitive win over a top-5 LW for his career.
How in the fuck would that already make him the greatest LW "of all time"? It would make him the consensus best LW NOW - but "of all time"? (And no, Frankie is obviously not generally considered the best LW even now, despite his current consensus #1 ranking - as evidenced by the fact that he is still the clear underdog going into the rematch with BJ, whom most people are picking and still consider "better" than Edgar.)
And even with a reaffirming win over BJ - what kind of dominant reign will Edgar have already had? BJ and Gomi will still have had longer, more sustained and dominant reigns, as had Sato, Uno, and Pulver, the first three #1 LW's in MMA history.
Whereas Edgar will have just made his first defense as the #1, and if he can actually decisively and uncontroversially beat BJ this time - again, it would still be his FIRST such win over a top-5 LW for his entire career. How would that already qualify as the greatest "of all time"?
Poindexter -+1. I voted this up. VTFU.whistleblower - Only a truly narrow-perspectived and overreactive noob - or a truly biased, agenda-driven extremist like orcus (motivated as usual by his notorious and obsessive dislike for BJ) - would even reasonably argue that Edgar would already be the greatest LW "of all time."I would vote this up if I hadn't used up my allotment already.
Frankie has not finished a single top fighter in his entire career. Not one.
Edgar has also beaten one top-5 fighter for his entire career - and it was by a close and controversial decision, which many, if not most, felt should not have gone his way to begin with. And yet a close and controversial decision (and certainly not a dominant win at all) is still ultimately the basis for him even becoming the current #1 in the first place.
The only even-arguably top-10 LW that Edgar has ever even clearly and decisively beaten was Sherk.
If Frankie actually dominantly, or at least clearly and decisively, beats BJ this time - then that would be his FIRST such definitive win over a top-5 LW for his career.
How in the fuck would that already make him the greatest LW "of all time"? It would make him the consensus best LW NOW - but "of all time"? (And no, Frankie is obviously not generally considered the best LW even now, despite his current consensus #1 ranking - as evidenced by the fact that he is still the clear underdog going into the rematch with BJ, whom most people are picking and still consider "better" than Edgar.)
And even with a reaffirming win over BJ - what kind of dominant reign will Edgar have already had? BJ and Gomi will still have had longer, more sustained and dominant reigns, as had Sato, Uno, and Pulver, the first three #1 LW's in MMA history.
Whereas Edgar will have just made his first defense as the #1, and if he can actually decisively and uncontroversially beat BJ this time - again, it would still be his FIRST such win over a top-5 LW for his entire career. How would that already qualify as the greatest "of all time"?
- Great Wrestling = Aoki can't take him down
- Caesar Gracie Brown Belt = Aoki can't sub him
- Power striking = he can hurt Aoki after he keeps it mostly standing (see above)
there is NO LW IN THE WORLD besides BJ who also possesses these skills at LW.
lol, wtf? Florian is better on the ground than Melendez, a better striker than Melendez, and he tooled Guida whom Melendez went 5 rounds with -- including easily stuffing Clay's takedowns and even slamming him.
Edgar is better standing and a better wrestler than Gil. I'll grant he has less power, but it's not like Gil stopped Aoki or ever came close anyway.
I could go on...
Edgar has also beaten one top-5 fighter for his entire career - and it was by a close and controversial decision, which many, if not most, felt should not have gone his way to begin with. And yet a close and controversial decision (and certainly not a dominant win at all) is still ultimately the basis for him even becoming the current #1 in the first place.
Hey dumbass, this thread is about if he beats BJ again.
How in the fuck would that already make him the greatest LW "of all time"? It would make him the consensus best LW NOW - but "of all time
Gee, let's ponder this one. BJ is considered by nearly everyone to be the best lightweight of all time. If Frankie wins, he will have beaten BJ twice and even according to you that will make him the "best lightweight now". So what is the logic by which he would NOT be considered the best lightweight "of all time"? He is better than BJ, who is the best lightweight of all time, but is not the best himself somehow?
Weird.
Right, because when Leon Spinks beat Muhammed Ali (the greatest of all time), Leon immediately became the greatest of all time. What a fucking retarded argument. Jesus, you're a moran orcus.
Kakkarotto_san - Right, because when Leon Spinks beat Muhammed Ali (the greatest of all time), Leon immediately became the greatest of all time. What a fucking retarded argument. Jesus, you're a moran orcus.
No one is answering the questions. Who is your pick for best LW ever? What made that person the best? Who were their best opponents? Which of those opponents do you think would have beaten Edgar, assuming Edgar beats BJ Penn twice in a row?
The routine argument for BJ being the best is that he is the best standing with unbeatable takedown defense and sick ground game. If Edgar beats him standing, outwrestles him, and does not get subbed on the ground, what are your arguments for picking any of BJ's past opponents over him? If Edgar beats BJ twice, and would be reasonably expected to have beaten everyone BJ has beaten, in what sense is BJ "better" than him?
You fags are too busy lol'ing to give reasons for anything you say. At least whistleblower gave his usual tiresome rankings crap.
Kakkarotto_san, please tell me which of BJ's opponents Edgar would have lost to.
Long-ago Gomi? lol. BJ took him down at will, what do you think Edgar would do? Edgar is twice the wrestler BJ is with twice the cardio. Equal or better boxer, too.
Prime Pulver? Come on. Edgar is a better boxer than Jens ever was.
Uno? Stevenson? Sherk (well, we know that one)? Florian? Diego? Give me a break.
Kakkarotto_san - Right, because when Leon Spinks beat Muhammed Ali (the greatest of all time), Leon immediately became the greatest of all time. What a fucking retarded argument. Jesus, you're a moran orcus.
what if spinks fought as good of competition and had a better overall record and beat ali twice?
come at me bro