Same as Brock at heavyweight in terms of great success without equal talent.
His run on the way up was insanely good. Money has broken him as a fighter & a person
Interesting reading some of these posts. Seems like Conor has been living rent free inside of many people’s heads.
He was a great FW - size matter… but if you Ask me he would have been exposed sooner or later at the FW division to. I had Chad Mendez winning over connor until chad hot tired (took the fight on short notice).
The problem with connor now is that he did all the hard work and he lived/breathed mma before. After he got his double champ champ and all the money he wanted ( Remember This was his goals ) I dont think he has pushed himself to the needed status (to be world champ or a true nr1 contender) in Both training and on fight day.
It’s hard to discuss the topic when OP is using the wrong word. The word is mystique, hence the name Mystic Mac. Debating if a myth is over doesbt make sense. If you’re asking about the mystique. Yes, it’s over, to me at least. He was special and different for a while but he showed his true colors( punching old men) and he wasn’t nearly as hungry as before his fame. (understandably).
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There’s no myth. Every fight has been on film from multiple angles so we can see what he was, wasn’t, is, & isn’t.
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I think people like to pretend they never rated Conor because of his antics and especially his money.
Except I’m not.
Again… I never put Conor on that level of GOAT status – nor did I ever have a feeling that he had the potential to be one of the GOATS.
You seem to be making the assumption that I somehow thought Conor would be an all time great talent – as if it was obvious – then had my mind changed based on later results after the dude got rich.
Well, you are wrong.
I have a track record on this forum, and although my word on this matter in conversation should be enough – I can assure you that I was never, even for a minute, on the Conor potential GOAT bandwagon.
It seems unnecessary that I should have to go back 5 years of threads to prove this to you.
I’m not saying the guy wasn’t, isn’t talented.
He is a very good striker, with very good power, especially for his weight class, where real KO power is more rare.
In terms of striking, movement, and controlling distance – Conor is an excellent ring general.
I give credit where it’s due.
But none of that put him at GOAT potential.
IMO, not even the Aldo fight was enough to put him in the GOAT conversation.
He still had a lot more to do.
I’ll say it again… if you wanted to have the conversation about him possibly being the best FW, maybe ever – had he stayed at that weight, I think that would have been a realistic discussion.
The Aldo fight certainly went a long way in that aspect.
But even being the best FW ever doesn’t necessarily put one in the conversation of greatest fighter in MMA history period.
Especially after the Aldo fight, a lot of Conor’s fan base were putting him in the GOAT conversation.
I mean literally ranking him among the Anderson’s, Fedor’s, GSP’S, and John Jones’.
That is and always was absurd, and IMO based in a lot of “newer fan” ignorance.
Hell… I remember guys saying Conor would beat prime GSP!
That’s what you call the hype, being much greater than the reality.
I’m rambling now…
Let’s get to something more specific…
The Mendez fight is, IMO, a good example of Conor’s strengths and weaknesses.
Mendez took that fight on short notice, what like a week IIRC?
Correct me if I’m wrong…
And he took Conor down, what 4 or 5 times?
He also did some some damage with G&P, and bloodied Conor up.
Also, IIRC (it’s been a while), Mendez came pretty close to connecting in some of the first round punching exchanges, and even backed Conor up a bit
Nothing wrong with that, after all, Conor won and finished the fight.
All due credit to Conor for overcoming a grappling disadvantage and imposing his will to win the fight.
That’s what champions do, and Conor was a champion.
Also says a lot about the effectiveness of his striking, something I never denied.
So without taking anything away from Conor’s win – my observation was that he was in some trouble against a guy who took the fight on very short notice.
Takeaway:
Conor was the better fighter, but he also looked very beatable.
The Great @wiggum made a comparison earlier in this thread… something about Anderson also having some issues with TDD, yet having success.
Respectfully Wiggum – Conor didn’t have the BJK and submission threat that Anderson did, and was nowhere near the killer in the clinch that Anderson was. So I’m not quite on board with that comparison. IMO Conor was much more one-dimensional than Anderson.
I’m rambling again…
The larger point here, is not that Conor wasn’t a great fighter.
It’s that the hype was ALWAYS greater than the accomplishment – and yes, greater than the potential.
There have been a lot of great fighters though… and being great isn’t enough to start talking GOAT.
To your point about potential…
Sure, a lot of coaches would love to work with a guy like Conor who obviously had a knack for striking, and the power behind it to put guys away.
But a lot of guys have a ton of potential starting out – potential that might make one think it’s not crazy to think champion and even all time great potential.
You want to say Conor had that… fair enough.
But based on his actual fights… I was never one of the guys who thought he was sniffing even the longer list of GOAT candidates.
I wouldn’t even rank him an honorable mention.
He had aot more work to do towards that… and well, we know how it’s played out.
A couple of great wins don’t make a GOAT career – especially when the most common candidates proved themselves so many times.
I picked Nate to beat Conor the first time.
I wasn’t at all surprised (LOL) by the result.
Great fighter?
Yes.
Champion?
Absolutely.
World beater?
Nah…
GOAT candidate?
Not even close.
Again… this isn’t hindsight.
I just never put him there. There was no reason to.
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Plenty of posters here laughed at the idea Conor was ever chasing GOAT status – and rightfully so.
A lot of guys picked Aldo to beat him, and were wrong.
A lot of guys picked Nate to beat him, and were right.
I for one, have no need to lie about or misrepresent my past comments about Conor.
You can choose not to believe me if you want – and I would just laugh.
Personality is one thing… but I don’t pick fights based on personality.
Who I “want” to win, and what I think will happen, are 2 different things.
You seem to not be understanding and I’m not going to waste any more time with it
The money, star power, celebrity status and things like being the first champ champ are here to stay. However, it’s interesting to hear the ESPN analysts now starting the discussion on if he’ll ever be able to compete and defeat elite fighters (let’s say top 5 in a division).
Mainstream sports media are covering this like all other sports. MMA fans seem to instantly retaliate with the argument that he has a lot of money and will come back stronger. He’s set for life and talked about becoming a billionaire next. That won’t help him keep up with all the current and incoming talent. What a position to be in where you can sell PPV’s, must be the main event fight, but your abilities are now in question as MMA evolves.
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If that’s true and you think he never had a chance to become one of the best ever, you simply don’t know what you’re looking at. That’s the last thing I’ll say
To be fair, the UFC booked him against RDA instead of Frankie, so it’s not like they gave him an easy out. RDA was beating the fuck out of people at the time, having won 4 in a row over Ben Henderson (1st round KO), Nate Diaz (absolute blowout, scored 30-26 on 2 out of the 3 cards), Pettis (50-45 on all 3 cards), and a 1st round KO of Cerrone.
The RDA booking looked to be a tougher fight than Frankie…RDA happened to get hurt and we ended up getting the Diaz fight, but I don’t think we can really say that the UFC was protecting him, RDA was beating the fuck out of everybody at the time that fight got booked.
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That’s because your idea of what I should have thought – and what I actually did think – are not jiving.
Had Conor not been spoiled with money and fame, and been more dedicated, he could have been better???
LOL… yeah, sure!
Join the club!
If that’s your sticking point, you can have it.
For me, any true GOAT conversation goes a lot further than that – potential or otherwise.
What if BJ Penn had the best work ethic in MMA??
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The RDA fight was the ballsiest thing Conor ever did.
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The RDA fight also had a built in excuse to save the brand - “I went up a weight and took a chance” - that the Frankie fight lacked.
IDK man…if he was on track to be the best ever, he can’t be losing to Nate Diaz. Nate’s fun, but prior to the Conor fight he had gone 2-3 in his last 5, and he lost 50-45 to Henderson, then got KO’d by Thomson, and lost 30-26 to RDA.
Does Diaz suck? Certainly not, but we’re not exactly talking about a young GSP losing to Matt Hughes here. Conor came back and won the rematch, but it was a razor thin decision win for Conor in the rematch too. Dude had incredible standup, and some of the best timing the sport has ever seen, but I think you’re making a tough argument here…if everything broke right for Conor, and he stayed with MMA 100%, and kept improving at the rate he was, sure…if things went perfectly he could have been one of the best ever…however, it’s just as plausible that he fought Khabib in his first title defense, got run over and then went something like 4-4 in the next few years, alternating wins and losses when competing against the UFC’s top 10.
The division is too damn tough, and there’s too many great fighters in it. Based on what I’ve seen from Conor, I think he has a career similar to RDA…wins the belt, looks unbeatable for a time, then ultimately starts losing to the top guys. I get that RDA went to 170, but you get my point. I could see Conor dropping the belt, then having a hard time with guys like Poirier, Oliveria, Ferguson, Gaethje, and obviously Khabib. I mean, fuck…Hooker looked much better against Poirier than Conor did.
I wouldn’t expect Conor to lose to all those guys, but I wouldn’t expect him to win a majority either.
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My record on Conor fights is horrible.
Picked Conor over Brimmage, Max and Branao
Picked Dustin
Picked Conor over Siver
Picked Mendes, Aldo (by a smidge; I thought Aldo would wrestle)
Picked Conor over Nate
Picked Nate over Conor
Picked Eddie
Picked Khabib
Picked Conor over Cowboy
Picked Conor over Dustin
Picked Dustin over Conor
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yes it was, and yes it did…but it’s not like they were avoiding grapplers. Frankie is my favorite fighter ever, so I wanted him to get that fight, but if he went up and lost, it was assumed he’d go back to 145 to defend against Frankie.
I’m not a big fan of Conor, but I think there was a lot more substance to his skills than people give him credit for.
I don’t like how nobody gave him credit for the mendes fight, saying Chad got tired because of short notice only. Chad is an elite athlete with a good gas tank, Chad could wrestle for 25 minutes today if he needed to. The lack of a camp certainly impacted things, but so did Conor.
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Haha! When it comes to actual betting, I lost money picking Aldo years ago. What a defining moment that was in regards to Conor’s style from getting in his opponent’s head to the KO. I didn’t touch his fights until I bet on Dustin these last two fights. Now, officially broke even.
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Mine is worse, I think. I only really started picking his fights at the Mendes fight, and I picked Chad and Jose, then got both Nate fights wrong, bet on Eddie, picked Khabib, then fucking bet on Cowboy because I liked the line and didn’t think Conor would look good coming back…and I got this last fight wrong too, thinking Poirier was overconfident and Conor looked great in the first one until the last 20 seconds.
I’m always wrong with Conor, but I still think the anti-conor crowd is about as crazy as the pro-conor crowd.
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Never said he “didn’t have a chance”.
That’s a relative statement, and the sky is the limit.
You are implying that if not for money and fame he was demonstrably on that path.
I disagree.
He was on a great path, no doubt.
But I still think the most motivated and hungry version of Conor loses to a guy like Khabib.
Does that apply if Conor had somehow managed to transform himself into an elite grappler??
Well obviously that would be a different story.
But he never did.
IMO you are speaking in the somewhat abstract.
Potential is a very big word.
In reality… I never saw him as a world beater, and I was right.
You seem to think I was either right for the wrong reasons, or should have been wrong for the right reasons.
That’s weird.
Dude… I thought Carter William’s qas going to be contending for K-1 World GP titles.
He had a lot of potential, and big time power.
I was wrong.
I’ve seen thousands of fights and followed this thing from the very beginning.
I’ve been wrong a lot, and I’ve been right a lot – and a lot of in between.
It is what it is…