Because, ... gasp ... , the UG has haterz posting on it???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRMy-ts1s1Y
Jackson and Wink are the best... pound for pound if given the same talent to train they would run circles around everyone else. Though, Nova Uniao is creeping up.
THe problem I have with Jackson was his rule that "we dont fight teammates"... this was beyond selfish... how can you tell a guy you cant fight for your dreams because our other student holds the belt? The only one benefiiting from this set up are the coaches.
They have since changed this silly rule to "Greg will sit out if teammates fight each other".
Jackson/WInkeljohn MMA is without a doubt one of the most acclaimed, successful gyms in the world. Their win-loss record in the UFC and the longevity they have had near the top speaks for itself.
That said, there are many reasons why they are not the best gym.
For starters, they do not typically breed in-house talent. The best guys to ever come out of that program from the start are, in no particular order:
Cub Swanson
Diego Sanchez
Carlos Condit
Leonard Garcia
Donald Cerrone
Joey Villasenor
Many of the best fighters attached to the Jackson's name do not train in New Mexico. They include:
Tristar Gym members
Grudge training center members
Finally, he comes off as so fucking fake. When Cesar Gracie says "call that motherfucker out! Call that motherfucker st pierre out!" he is being genuine and real. Thats Cesar. he doesnt try to hid he is all in for his boys. When Greg Jackson talks about love, and his feelings about Rashad, and he's my brother bla bla bla.... it is such bullshit.
I think we all know that when Greg Jackson instructed JBJ to "go get some fans" Jack was showing his true colors. Money grubbing name dropping hollywood mother fucker dude.
peace yall..... reppin Missoula, Montana and LLOYD PITBULL WOODARD!!!
People are no longer a fan because of his lack of loyalty. GSP over Diego then Jones over Evans. It is what it is.
i said it yesterday on the UG, on one thread, that loyalty is and often times can be a complex issue. i like rashad a lot. i like both guys. nobody should judge. its between them.
Did Condit start out at Jackson's, leave, and them come back? When he fought here at Rumble on the Rock in 05/06 he rep'd FIT NHB.
People dont like Jacksons because when the "epic meltdown" of a fight happens it seems to be their camp. Aside from the always boring mofos, The extreme gameplanning comes from Jacksons.
Yes, stats show they finish more than they go to a decision.
But when youre looking for a coach that gets you WINS but not doesnt make you any BETTER of a Fighter, ,maybe that has something to do with it.
that last statement needs some explaining. I think Jackson is awesome when dealing with a fighters pysche, but I dont see Jackson ever making anyone better in terms of physical TOOLs.
Left out Shawn Tompkins , just saying 
irishrottie - Rashad drama aside...Jackson is made out to be a better coach than he is.Well fucking said
A guy like Cesar Gracie took in guys from their beginning and turned them into world champions.
Guys join the Jackson brand. Guys like Guillard, Arlovski, Carwin, Jon Jones and many many others.
Best coach in the game....hell no....owner of the gym with the most talent yes.
Silver Thumb Photo - Kirik - "I don't see why anyone would want to parse the opaque train of human interaction..."
Whoa whoa whoa...Kirik, you're on the UG! Let me help express your thoughts so the masses might better understand you.
Kirik - "Why you tryin' to figure out shit you don't understand, bitches?"
You're welcome.
I'll simplify it further, for the benefit of Train Judo;
"u jus don know, fag!"
tat2tillidie - Left out Shawn Tompkins , just saying
good point
A friend of mine trained with Greg in the late 90's and early 2000's and later fought for FitNHB. Obviously a completely different time back then in the early 2000's.
Greg was the leader and ran the gym obviously, Miletich was King at the time and everyone hated on Miletich for game planning and creating basic boring fighters similar to what is said about Greg these days.
Back to Greg, Greg in the 90's/2000's was ahead of his time in that he forced his guys to work wrestling and start standing in training, not starting in guard, not cookie-cutter bjj, leglocks, good passing and submissions and just plain aggressive. Greg obviously pushed no gi, and he was open minded. Sounds common sense but there were few gysm fully no gi with good wrestling and submissions at the time and his guys dominated no gi tournaments. His guys had better technique than your average no gi grappling gym a lot more conditioning/balls/aggressiveness, fair striking IMO and Greg from what I know started out as a pure grappler training guys no gi and getting them in grappling tournaments. I think Jardine grappled for years before striking, which I found odd watching him fight as from what I knew about him he was a grappler. Greg created the most confident, well conditioned, and aggressive guys. He is a motivator more than a technician and that is the key thing a lot of people don't realize about him. Couture said that mma is 90% mental and 10% technique and most guys don't realize that....Greg does.
He also is a leader and very smart. How many guys go through "paralysis by analysis"? Greg has them master 3 moves a day, this is genius. He creates amazing routines and gameplans. Guys want to work hard for him because he is confident in them. At the end of the day it's his motivational skills that got him where he is IMO. Diego was the superstar of that team back in the day and Diego created Jackson more than Rashad ever did IMO, that can be said with 100% certainty, Diego was key for that gym before the mma explosion. Lastly, I see similarities between Greg and Miletich but I consider Greg more open minded.
sorry if my post was scatter brained, trained hard tonight
irishrottie - Rashad drama aside...Jackson is made out to be a better coach than he is.I agree 100%
A guy like Cesar Gracie took in guys from their beginning and turned them into world champions.
Guys join the Jackson brand. Guys like Guillard, Arlovski, Carwin, Jon Jones and many many others.
Best coach in the game....hell no....owner of the gym with the most talent yes.
Both Jackson and Winklejohn are both two of the best Coaches in MMA and Jackson's is one of the premier Camps in the game this can't be intelligently disputed.
As for the dispute surrounding Rashad and Jackson from all interviews I have read and heard Jackson has handled the situation with much more class than Rashad.
Jackson has perfected the decision win
Naderhood - Its become the "in" thing to hate on the successful guys in the sport. Its much cooler to like a lesser known fighter. For example, GSP gets mucho hate for a variety of reasons but he is arguably the best fighter in MMA history. Jake Shields was a fav fighter for a lot before he came to the UFC and became hated by the majority. I think it just comes with the territory of major MMA success.Agreed. And voted up
Kirik - Greg Jackson and Mike Winklejohn are the greatest coaches in the sport today. I don't know why they are bashed so regularly on the UG.
When UFC 1 debuted, we all wanted to learn BJJ from Rorion, which made him at the time the best (known) coach in MMA. Looking back the best coach at the time was probably Carlson Gracie, Sr., but there was no known back to look back to then.
Then Mark Coleman and Dan Severn proved that wrestling could trump all. There was no identifiable premier wrestling coach in MMA, which was good (long story), so everyone brushed off their HS and college wrestling.
Then Mo Smith knocked out Coleman, and the MMA Alliance team of coaches Smith and Frank Shamrock were tops.
Finally Pat Miletich established the blueprint for the sport that lasts up til today, and probably forever – to reach the top in MMA, you need skills adequate to hang with national class guys in wrestling, BJJ, and stand up.
Miletich Martial Arts produced 80+ television and PPV level fighters, 14 world titlists in various organizations, and five UFC world champions. Since that time, the sport has been blessed with some extraordinary coaches - Rudimar Fedrigo, Matt Hume, Ricardo Liborio, Greg Nelson/Erik Paulson, Andre Pederneiras, and many more. And atop every coach today is the team of Jackson/Winklejohn.
For reasons I don't understand, the pair, or more often Greg Jackson, come under fire on the UG. Jackson is both humble and great, a rare combination on this sport, or anywhere. Maybe people just hate success. I dunno.
The problems Jackson had with Rashad Evans are complex, and both parties have expressed a hope to move to more friendly ground. Rashad Evans is a man, and does not appear to need any coat holders in his disagreement.
I don't see why anyone would want to parse the opaque train of human interaction that led to their 'divorce' and jump in on one side of the other. Rashad Evans is a great fighter. Greg Jackson is a great trainer. They had a disagreement, and Rashad moved on.
They say there are three sides to every fight, one side the other side and the truth, but really there are four sides, with the last one being "I have better things to worry about than that fight, like whether my socks match."
Anyway, just wanted to get a sounding on how people think, and why there is so much Jackson bashing. Is it just that Dana has said Jackson fighters don't finish? I really don't get it.
You're 99% right. It's been very apparent over the last couple of weeks that Rashad hasn't "moved on". Don't let this Rashad situation confuse you. People disliked Jackson way before this happened. How many threads have people started about his camp being safe and boring even though his camp has more fight bonuses than any other camp? Him cornering Jones just added another group of drama queens to the equation...
Jackson = Belichick
Adam Singer - Jackson = BelichickSinger = Cowher
EighNullSects - Jackson/WInkeljohn MMA is without a doubt one of the most acclaimed, successful gyms in the world. Their win-loss record in the UFC and the longevity they have had near the top speaks for itself.Cub Swanson is Cali born an bred and was with Erik Paulson for the longest time before Jackson
That said, there are many reasons why they are not the best gym.
For starters, they do not typically breed in-house talent. The best guys to ever come out of that program from the start are, in no particular order:
Cub Swanson
Diego Sanchez
Carlos Condit
Leonard Garcia
Donald Cerrone
Joey Villasenor
Many of the best fighters attached to the Jackson's name do not train in New Mexico. They include:
Tristar Gym members
Grudge training center members
Finally, he comes off as so fucking fake. When Cesar Gracie says "call that motherfucker out! Call that motherfucker st pierre out!" he is being genuine and real. Thats Cesar. he doesnt try to hid he is all in for his boys. When Greg Jackson talks about love, and his feelings about Rashad, and he's my brother bla bla bla.... it is such bullshit.
I think we all know that when Greg Jackson instructed JBJ to "go get some fans" Jack was showing his true colors. Money grubbing name dropping hollywood mother fucker dude.
peace yall..... reppin Missoula, Montana and LLOYD PITBULL WOODARD!!!
