joe's on them what about you?

JosephConnolly - Root12, I think I was 200 every two weeks. Every shot was by a nurse. I didn't want to self inject until I knew it was/was not working just in case I was doing it wrong. My levels were ridiculously low, when I did my blood work about 11 weeks in, it was too high. I honestly didn't feel any better even though I had gone off the range on one end to just about off the range on the other end.

Hywel is right. You need to make lifestyle changes first, then adjust. My endo didn't even want to talk about diet or stress or sleep. After telling her it wasn't doing anything she was like "Oh well, it should be". I still have the Rx-scripts. But on the other side, Hywel both my PCP and the Endo were pretty shocked at my low levels. I don't think they had seen anyone at my age at such a low level without trauma or opiod abuse.

Shark, you can stop the TRT to have kids and they have other drugs which can promote fertility.

The annoyance of injections and possible side effects just doesn't seem worth it
Wow. That sucks. I really wish you had gotten the benefits I have. Phone Post 3.0

do you compete root 12 ?

No. Phone Post 3.0

Nope. Phone Post 3.0

Lol stupid app. Phone Post 3.0

I take a handful of Flinstones Chewables a day... I don't care who knows. People may say I'm "cheating" or whatever, but I don't care, I feel great.

JoejitsuMD -  What people don't realize is that there aren't really any studies into the long term effects of normal dose TRT. What I mean is, I think there is a very strong likelihood that the human body simply is not meant to have testosterone at the 13-30 year old levels for such an extended period of time.
People talk about "normal dose" testosterone, but what if what they consider to be normal dose is actually a very high dose because the body ramps up testosterone production greatly during the teenage and 20s. Perhaps normal testosterone is actually what an average man in his 40s and 50s has, not the high levels we see when a man's nature is about scoring a mate. I'm betting when all is said and done 10-15 years from now TRT will begin to fade as we see a dramatic rise in incidence of heart disease, death by blood clots, and cancer. Most testosterone fans will argue otherwise but truth is they simply don't know because medicine hasn't had time to study this, and are spouting very wishful thinking. Even if those studies do come out, there will be a segment of people that will ignore the data and claim otherwise. Any time people are dealing with a substance that makes them feel good they will look to rationalize its use even in the face of scrutiny. Phone Post


Fair point.  But . . . it's worth noting that this view is mere speculation as well. 

At one time, there weren't long term studies on the effect of a daily multivitamin (and I understand that it's still a fairly disputed area).  I'm sure that when the contact lens debuted, there weren't long term studies about their daily wear.  Are there long term studies about the daily consumption of one cup of coffee?  Three cups?  Ten?  What about long term studies confirming the safety of taking an aspirin every day for 35 years?  Etc.

I don't read medical journals of course and assume that some of those were ultimately backed up by multi-decade studies, but the fact is that at some point a lot of folks just decided to go with their anecdotal experience and (perhaps) the prevailing medical view at the time, and to just proceed at their own risk.  You can speculate that the long term outcomes will be bad, or you can speculate that they'll be good or at least neutral.  Either way, you're just speculating. 

That said, I have no doubt that just about anything in sufficient quantities can be bad for you.  Someone who gulps down an entire bottle of multivitamins every morning is likely to have a different long term outcome than someone who just has one.  Ten daily cups of coffee is different than three. 

So with that in mind, let me ask you this . . . .  You believe that in 10-15 years, we'll see all sorts of bad outcomes with TRT.  And based on your comments about "normal doses" and the "strong likelihood" that men aren't meant to have the testosterone levels of 13-30 year olds for their whole lives, I assume you're not just referring to the guys who are getting huge doses prescribed at "anti-aging" clinics, but that you're also including in your dire prediction the guys who are using comparatively modest doses prescribed by mainstream endos. 

With regard to the guys using comparatively modest doses, why do you believe we'll see so many bad outcomes? 

You've observed we don't have long term studies, so that can't be the basis of your conclusion.  So what is?  The rationale surely can't be merely that just because we're altering our own body chemistry we must therefore be at higher risk.  After all, much of medical science is based on the premise that alterations to what is naturally occuring can be theraputic--every prescription, every cancer surgery, and myriad other medical treatments alter what's naturally occuring, and we have no problem with that concept. 

Nature only cares that we reproduce and live long enough to raise our young.  Beyond that, nature is not terribly interested in maximizing the quality (or even duration) of your life.  Once you have babies and raise them, nature could care less whether you just shrivel up and die.  Why assume that taking steps against that--whether it be multivitamins, exercise, TRT, arthritis medication, or blood pressure medication--has a "strong likelihood" of leading to disaster?  Nearly our entire medical system is devoted to doing just that, and it has been very successful.  The average life expectancy in the Roman empire was 20-30, now it's nearly 70.  For all we know, future "long term studies" may show that men who got on modest TRT doses in their 40s and 50s far outlive those who never got on it.  Perhaps they'll stay healthier, for longer, and thus live longer on average.  We just don't know, right?

Nature knows best. Besides, it might be a roadblock in my path to enlightenment. My body is purely a vehicle for consciousness.. "All is impermanent, all is without a self."

armbarseverywhere - 

Nature knows best. Besides, it might be a roadblock in my path to enlightenment. My body is purely a vehicle for consciousness.. "All is impermanent, all is without a self."


There's some traction to this concept, but it's not without it's limits.

Let's not forget that nature gives you cancer, high blood pressure, arthritis, dementia, etc.  Few have any objection to treating those conditions with modern medicine. 

Nature also gives you the flu, and I don't think many of us refuse to get some cough & cold medicine at the drug store.  Nor do I see many folks refusing treatment for malaria. 

Nature does a lot of things to kill us, too. 

Just a few weeks ago, an orthopedic spine surgeon I know who lives a fairly healthy lifestyle (runs daily, gym rat) and is on TRT had a stroke just minutes before he was about to do surgery. Needless to say, he's no longer on it. Phone Post 3.0

^ The fact that he was already at the hospital since he was about to perform surgery probably saved his life. Phone Post 3.0

shen - 


I take a handful of Flinstones Chewables a day... I don't care who knows. People may say I'm "cheating" or whatever, but I don't care, I feel great.


Well, I for one know when I go to sleep at night I don't have to share my little victories on the mat with Barney Rubble, Fred, Wilma, Dino, Pebbles, or BamBam. My conscious is clear. You proclaiming "I don't care who knows" doesn't require a PhD in psychology to know that you really DO care. Get the your lifestyle habits cleaned up man, you don't need that pharmaceutical crutch.

Hywel Teague - I don't dispute there are people who have genuine medical conditions that require HRT ...

But most people don't have them.



Eat shit, drink beer, smoke, live a sedentary life... Don't tell me you need TRT because you feel fatigued.

Work a 60 hour week, drink 10 cups of coffee a day, drink at weekends, train 3-5 times a week, juggle stressful job / family / life. You don't need TRT either. Tone back to what your body can handle. We're not supermen.

It's a crutch, like taking valium to sleep at night, or viagra to pop a hard-on. The truth is most people are not in NEED, they're just lazy and need to get their shit together.


"Work a 60hr week, drink 10 cups of coffee a day, drink on the weekend, train 3-5 times a week, juggle stressful job/family/life."



I could be wrong, but sure doesn't sound lazy to me. I feel like I need some trt just reading it!

Terry Maxwell -
Hywel Teague - I don't dispute there are people who have genuine medical conditions that require HRT ...

But most people don't have them.



Eat shit, drink beer, smoke, live a sedentary life... Don't tell me you need TRT because you feel fatigued.

Work a 60 hour week, drink 10 cups of coffee a day, drink at weekends, train 3-5 times a week, juggle stressful job / family / life. You don't need TRT either. Tone back to what your body can handle. We're not supermen.

It's a crutch, like taking valium to sleep at night, or viagra to pop a hard-on. The truth is most people are not in NEED, they're just lazy and need to get their shit together.


"Work a 60hr week, drink 10 cups of coffee a day, drink on the weekend, train 3-5 times a week, juggle stressful job/family/life."



I could be wrong, but sure doesn't sound lazy to me. I feel like I need some trt just reading it!

Lol. Phone Post 3.0

I am not an expert so I don´t want to judge about it but here are a few thoughts.......

Nowadays everyone from his mid thirtees is using TRT it seems and honestly I think it is used just to compensate an unhealthy lifestyle.....

Look at some of the oldschool guys 100 years ago. They had muscles into their fivetees and sixtees too without using TRT or any kind of steroids. They where strong because they were training hard but respecting their body to have a healthy life.

I think that should be your first goal. Living a good lie and if you are all stressed out, overtrained and always tired you don´t need TRT to go on with the havoc on your body but you need to chance your life.

Basically when my colesterol is high from wrong food I don´t need drugs and go on with my wrong nutrition but I need a change of my diet.....Same with TRT I think.

Like I said I am not an epxert maybe there are a few cases of people who really need it. But it seems to be a trend that everyone is using it nowadays in the USA

circusmonkey - 
shen - 


I take a handful of Flinstones Chewables a day... I don't care who knows. People may say I'm "cheating" or whatever, but I don't care, I feel great.


Well, I for one know when I go to sleep at night I don't have to share my little victories on the mat with Barney Rubble, Fred, Wilma, Dino, Pebbles, or BamBam. My conscious is clear. You proclaiming "I don't care who knows" doesn't require a PhD in psychology to know that you really DO care. Get the your lifestyle habits cleaned up man, you don't need that pharmaceutical crutch.


You don't know me, bro... --Don't be acting like you know me!

iVaporize - also share if your a past steroid user

trt probably gonna send u to an early grave

Your evidence? Or do you just comment without knowing what your talking about?

armbarseverywhere -


Nature knows best. Besides, it might be a roadblock in my path to enlightenment. My body is purely a vehicle for consciousness.. "All is impermanent, all is without a self."

I actually agree with this, though I can't tell if you're serious. Phone Post 3.0

circusmonkey - 
shen - 


I take a handful of Flinstones Chewables a day... I don't care who knows. People may say I'm "cheating" or whatever, but I don't care, I feel great.


Well, I for one know when I go to sleep at night I don't have to share my little victories on the mat with Barney Rubble, Fred, Wilma, Dino, Pebbles, or BamBam. My conscious is clear. You proclaiming "I don't care who knows" doesn't require a PhD in psychology to know that you really DO care. Get the your lifestyle habits cleaned up man, you don't need that pharmaceutical crutch.

There you go...turning into a morality argument. "My conscious is clear"... From what? Having a doctor put you on medicine and thats what it was orginally developed for. If it didnt work for you...sorry to hear that. But it may work very well for other people.

You sound like all the people that argue about pot being the devil and leading to a life of hard core drugs. There have never been any deaths realted to steroids...ever. Find me one documented case. Just one. And im not talking about innuendo and gossip on "maybe it was steroids". If people were dying we would see Olypians, NFL, and baseball players dropping like flys. Where are the bodies?

And for the record I am NOT on TRT nor do I smoke. I have more clearances then Shen has blackbelts.

checkuroil - The outrage at listing common side effects that you can see listed everywhere is scary to me

This involves medical issues. There are experts who study this for a living. Just because you may not agree with them due to anecdotal evidence does not mean their findings are invalid.
Also, just because some of you guys didn't have side effects doesn't mean others have not had that experience

Joe Rogan puts a lot of crap in his body. He smokes weed all day. He does dmt. I don't know how much he shares on his podcast but he has used other "enhancement" drugs as well. Look at his hands. He has a common symptom of too much hgh. Don't use him as your medical guide. Phone Post 3.0
This. Phone Post 3.0