People who are anti-TRT might as well say they are anti-pushups. Or air conditioning. Or brain surgery. Or Tylenol.
None of it is "natural." The only difference is 1.) an arbitrary label placed upon it by the government and 2.) people's willingness to embrace one side of the coin while at the same time decrying the other.
Older people have blood pressure issues. They have stroke issues. Osteoporosis issues. Dick issues. Yet everyone is okay with taking medicine to combat and control those "natural" effects of aging.
Yet somehow TRT, which also combats and controls the effects of aging, is bad? It makes no sense.
We have the science and the technology to build better lives through better bodies. But we half-ass it.
MTH -Five Year Blue Belt -Remember not to "fu*k with Mother Nature" when she gives you cancer, dementia, arthritis, heart disease, and high blood pressure too, okay?
no way. dont fuck with mother nature. anything that can produce such miracle results will likely catch up with you. and remember that the medical communitiy didnt think for 50 years that anything was wrong with smoking.
of course you will find a doctor to write a scrip. i was on PED's for two weeks, felt so good i knew i had to get off them.
If you get hit with any of that "natural" stuff, just sit back, and let Mother Nature do her thing.
Those conditions you list can be limited by diet and lifestyle. And from first hand in my own family, I have seen the damage from using drugs to combat cancer.
I am not talking about taking aspirin for a headache or a vaccine to stop polio. I am talking about shit that within a week of dosage makes you feel 2x better.
You are fooling yourself if you think that's the way to go. I'd focus on everything else before ingesting some chemicals that didnt exist ten years ago.
Hey 12... I was looking for this thread a few days ago. I was getting ad posts about class action lawsuits for a couple of these TRT medications...
iVaporize -burner22 -Hywel Teague - I don't dispute there are people who have genuine medical conditions that require HRT ...This
But most people don't have them.
Eat shit, drink beer, smoke, live a sedentary life... Don't tell me you need TRT because you feel fatigued.
Work a 60 hour week, drink 10 cups of coffee a day, drink at weekends, train 3-5 times a week, juggle stressful job / family / life. You don't need TRT either. Tone back to what your body can handle. We're not supermen.
It's a crutch, like taking valium to sleep at night, or viagra to pop a hard-on. The truth is most people are not in NEED, they're just lazy and need to get their shit together.
this
id say most trt users are the typical guys looking for shortcuts... i know plenty of people who had no problem using roids so i assume the typical trt user was one of these douchebags at one point
dont call eddie a douchebag
Five Year Blue Belt -MTH -Five Year Blue Belt -Remember not to "fu*k with Mother Nature" when she gives you cancer, dementia, arthritis, heart disease, and high blood pressure too, okay?no way. dont fuck with mother nature. anything that can produce such miracle results will likely catch up with you. and remember that the medical communitiy didnt think for 50 years that anything was wrong with smoking.
of course you will find a doctor to write a scrip. i was on PED's for two weeks, felt so good i knew i had to get off them.
If you get hit with any of that "natural" stuff, just sit back, and let Mother Nature do her thing.
Those conditions you list can be limited by diet and lifestyle. And from first hand in my own family, I have seen the damage from using drugs to combat cancer.
I am not talking about taking aspirin for a headache or a vaccine to stop polio. I am talking about shit that within a week of dosage makes you feel 2x better.
You are fooling yourself if you think that's the way to go. I'd focus on everything else before ingesting some chemicals that didnt exist ten years ago.
I'm not arguing for or against TRT, I'm just quibbling with your logic.
I deliberately stayed away from examples that are transitory--like the headache you get one day and then take a few aspirin to relieve. I instead chose life altering conditions that can occur naturally, for which modern medicine has identified long term treatment options, and which can kill you if left "natural."
I did this to demonstrate that the argument that TRT is bad merely because it's "unnatural" fails from a logical standpoint. Unless of course you are also willing to avoid a host of long term, common medical treatments.
There are for example countless individuals who are on high blood pressure medication for decades. Perhaps their particular form of high blood pressure is due to external conditions that (as you say) can be "limited by diet and lifestyle" . . . but perhaps not. It is routinely found to be genetic, and it is very presumptuous to assume that the ailments I listed are in all circumstances caused by (and can be cured by) "diet and lifestyle" changes. There are for example many millions of folks who suffer from diabetes that is utterly unrelated to diet or lifestyle.
Are you suggesting that if you were diagnosed tomorrow with borderline dangerously high blood pressure (or diabetes) despite having a healthy diet and lifestyle, that you would refuse long term medication because it's "unnatural"? Because you don't "fu*k with mother nature"? Of course not. Mother nature often knows best, but sometimes what she "knows best" is how to kill you in short order.
No, you'd carefully read up on dosages and side effects, discuss the issues with your doctor, and then you'd march right down to the pharmacy and fill your script for the next 30 years like a good patient.
Again, I'm not saying TRT is great and everyone should use it. I am not saying it has no side effects. I have no idea if it's good or bad, or if it has many bad side effects, especially over the long term.
What I am saying is that deciding that it is "bad" merely because it is "unnatural" is a decision that is at odds with your actual behavior.
^^^ That's not what I am saying.
What I am saying is that anything that makes a trained athlete feel that much better in a short time is something should be viewed skeptically.
I was prescribed a low dosage of steroids by an Olympic team doctor (he warned me I would fail a USADA test) for ruptured discs.
Within two days I was training harder, requiring less recovery time, and less sleep.
If you don't absolutely need them to function, I sure as hell would not start. Perhaps in ten years, they'll figure the side effects out and have shit that makes the current stuff look like the garbage the East Germans used 30 years ago.
iVaporize -LCSULLA -iVaporize -LCSULLA -iVaporize - also share if your a past steroid user
trt probably gonna send u to an early grave
Your evidence? Or do you just comment without knowing what your talking about?
just use google... do i need to post a lmgtfy link??
"Use google"...lol. Find documented evidence by either research scientists or doctors, not wiki or some rag newspaper. And not one doctor...but studies saying TRT will kill you. And you seem to get confussed by TRT and what BBers take. Its like the difference between having a few beers and being raging alcholic.
And you're falling into the trap of believing whatever you read on the internet. If I did a google search for pitbull I would find dozens of news articles of pitbulls being crazy killers. But CDC has them like fourth or fifth when it comes to bites and they classify any dog that looks pit a pit...even if its a mutt.
A lot of you get some notion in your head and run full steam without actual looking at the issue.
ok here read this and watch the video... a cardiologist is saying what i just said, i didnt make this stuff up.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/testosterone-replacement-therapy-can-carry-health-risks/
And you came at me and attacked my statement like i was claiming facts, i said "probably will send you to an early grave" ... "probably" ... just like the cardiologist featured on cbsnews
And I can find a dozen doctors that say different. I am asking for long term studies that says TRT will probably cause an early death.
And there are no guarantees on this world. I've seen people that are paragons of virtue: exercise everyday and eat a perfect diet...yet die at fifty from a heart attack. While the fat, smoking, diabetic lives to 80.
And calling everyone a douchbag that does TRT makes you sound like you 15.
Five Year Blue Belt -MTH -Five Year Blue Belt -Remember not to "fu*k with Mother Nature" when she gives you cancer, dementia, arthritis, heart disease, and high blood pressure too, okay?
no way. dont fuck with mother nature. anything that can produce such miracle results will likely catch up with you. and remember that the medical communitiy didnt think for 50 years that anything was wrong with smoking.
of course you will find a doctor to write a scrip. i was on PED's for two weeks, felt so good i knew i had to get off them.
If you get hit with any of that "natural" stuff, just sit back, and let Mother Nature do her thing.
Those conditions you list can be limited by diet and lifestyle. And from first hand in my own family, I have seen the damage from using drugs to combat cancer.
I am not talking about taking aspirin for a headache or a vaccine to stop polio. I am talking about shit that within a week of dosage makes you feel 2x better.
You are fooling yourself if you think that's the way to go. I'd focus on everything else before ingesting some chemicals that didnt exist ten years ago.
You know testosterone and it's derivatives have been around since the '40s right?
Why can't most of the people on this thread differentiate between TRT dose...which gets you to a normal male range, then what athletes or bbers take?
Why is it so hard for you to grasp? You just lump everything together and call it a day? Plato is rolling over in hhis grave at the lack of critical thought on this thread.
iVaporize -LCSULLA -iVaporize -LCSULLA -iVaporize -LCSULLA -iVaporize - also share if your a past steroid user
trt probably gonna send u to an early grave
Your evidence? Or do you just comment without knowing what your talking about?
just use google... do i need to post a lmgtfy link??
"Use google"...lol. Find documented evidence by either research scientists or doctors, not wiki or some rag newspaper. And not one doctor...but studies saying TRT will kill you. And you seem to get confussed by TRT and what BBers take. Its like the difference between having a few beers and being raging alcholic.
And you're falling into the trap of believing whatever you read on the internet. If I did a google search for pitbull I would find dozens of news articles of pitbulls being crazy killers. But CDC has them like fourth or fifth when it comes to bites and they classify any dog that looks pit a pit...even if its a mutt.
A lot of you get some notion in your head and run full steam without actual looking at the issue.
ok here read this and watch the video... a cardiologist is saying what i just said, i didnt make this stuff up.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/testosterone-replacement-therapy-can-carry-health-risks/
And you came at me and attacked my statement like i was claiming facts, i said "probably will send you to an early grave" ... "probably" ... just like the cardiologist featured on cbsnews
And I can find a dozen doctors that say different. I am asking for long term studies that says TRT will probably cause an early death.
And there are no guarantees on this world. I've seen people that are paragons of virtue: exercise everyday and eat a perfect diet...yet die at fifty from a heart attack. While the fat, smoking, diabetic lives to 80.
And calling everyone a douchbag that does TRT makes you sound like you 15.
ok well u know i was just thinking the typical young guy, roider, now trt user... the guy just mean mugging himself in the mirror at the gym who never works out his legs and benches 500 lbs and does yager bombs and snorts coke all weekend while trying to hit on super wasted girls at the bar
that is a douchebag no? when i think of young guys wanting to do trt, i think of that guy lol
I know two guys personally on TRT that never used gear in their lives. One had the testosterone of a 94 yr old man at 40. Those are the guys I'm defending. Not some guy that's been juicing since he was 17 and being stupid and using the kitchen sink approach to steroids.
Again I'm talking about guys I their 40s and above that use it under a doctors supervision. Guys that have tested below what their age group is. All my friends want is a better quality of life so they can enjoy it. No different then anyone else that's treating a medical condition.
iVaporize - that link had nothing to do with athletes, just normal guys on trt and how it increase heart disease risks... this still needs more testing but something to think about so i stand by my original statement
And I saw a recent study saying high esto increases Alzheimer's and heart attacks in men. So who to be believed ?
Maybe you can find out more about the particular medications....
http://www.lowtsettlements.com/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=home&utm_campaign=druglawsuitacct2&source=FB&creative_id=home
iVaporize -LCSULLA -iVaporize - that link had nothing to do with athletes, just normal guys on trt and how it increase heart disease risks... this still needs more testing but something to think about so i stand by my original statement
And I saw a recent study saying high esto increases Alzheimer's and heart attacks in men. So who to be believed ?
you should believe the person who went to 8 years of medical school and after research claims there is a possibilty of a link
just like the cardiologist in my video said... just stop... u lost this one
You're logic is mind boggling to say the least.
So I should believe the doctor you pulled off the internet to another doctor?
http://www.webmd.com/men/news/20101019/low-testosterone-ups-heart-death-risk
What makes your expert more valid then mine?
And he's a cardiologist not an endocrinologist, so hormones are not his expertise. But I guess you think all doctors are the same?
I guess next time I need shoulder surgery I'll go to OBGYN base on your logic.
some of you are so ignorant talking about eating better and getting more sleep, that's not going to do shit to someone with the levels of a 70 year old.
This all stems from people believing the bullshit propaganda against steroids just like people believe the bullshit against marijuana, just because a bunch of old crooked politicians decided to make something illegal doesn't mean it's actually bad for you.
iVaporize - that link had nothing to do with athletes, just normal guys on trt and how it increase heart disease risks... this still needs more testing but something to think about so i stand by my original statement
And I've decided that, based on your join date of 7 days ago, you are a troll.
Therefore I will stop feeding you your daily serving of logic.
knee smash - some of you are so ignorant talking about eating better and getting more sleep, that's not going to do shit to someone with the levels of a 70 year old.
This all stems from people believing the bullshit propaganda against steroids just like people believe the bullshit against marijuana, just because a bunch of old crooked politicians decided to make something illegal doesn't mean it's actually bad for you.
im not going to say ppl shouldnt smoke pot,im not going to say ppl shouldnt drink booze.i think ppl should do what they want as long as they dont hurt anyone else.i would join in im sure.
but no way can i say either is good for you
Synthetic hormones - my doctor and his pharmaceutical sales rep say I need them because I don't have the energy I did as a 17 year old. WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG? 
I guess what I'm trying to say (and have stressed in a few posts in this thread now) is that NOT KNOWING the long term impacts is NOT KNOWING.
Whether the long term results will be bad, or good, or neutral . . . we don't know. We have theories. We have short term analyses. But we don't have long term studies, so we don't know. And if we don't know, then we DON'T KNOW. So both sides of the debate need to stop pretending like they do.
Is it plausible that long term studies will show bad side effects to TRT at any dosage? Sure. But is it also plausible that long term studies will only show bad side effects at dosages over a certain level, while lower doses are neutral in side effects? Yes. Indeed, is it plausible that long term studies could show POSITIVE long term effects at certain doses? Absolutely.
For example, at one point nobody knew the consequences of the long term treatment of diabetes with insulin shots. Nobody knew. They had theories. They had short term analyses showing benefits. But nobody really knew what would happen to people who, over multiple decades, injected themselves everyday with synthetic insulin. As it turns out, we now know that there basically are no "side effects" to properly administered long term insulin treatment. Same with an aspirin a day. Same with many blood pressure medications. Same with multivitamins. Etc.
As was the case with insulin therapy, when we DON'T KNOW, the most ANYONE could say--on either side of this debate--was that we really have no idea what will happen over time. That's true of TRT today.
Some folks believe that avoiding TRT (or any medication that's untested over the long term) is "erring on the side of caution" . . . but even that's not really true. It's plausible that those on moderate doses of testosterone will maintain more physical well being and live longer on average, and if that turns out to be true, then those who avoided TRT when they were eligible for it made a "mistake" by doing so. Conversely, some folks believe that taking TRT (or any medication that's untested over the long term) for the obvious short term benefits is "erring on the side of caution" . . . but that's not really true either. It could indeed turn out to be bad for us.
So, again, we have no idea. You just take the data you have now, discuss it with your doctor, and make a decision. What the future holds is simply unknown, whether it be good or bad. That's why nobody can win this debate . . . yet.
Good post MTH, I agree. It may very well be that ANYTHING we put into our body ultimately has a detrimental effect, same with not putting anything into it at all.
It's important to remember that it's not just about quantity -how long we live- but also about quality. It's a balancing act and legitimately low TRT may really suck to live with, like narcolepsy or high blood pressure or low serotonin. Until we are in those people's shoes, it's tough to assess the cost not understanding the true benefit given the subtle changes that occur besides getting jacked, which really is not the case, despite the misperception.