Talk about a inefficient: 119 posts to:
- Say Judo is shite;
- Something else is the way of the future;and
- Josh is a prick and coward.
A very poor trolling effort, I give him a 1 plus an extra 1 point for effort, for a grant trolling score of 2/10.
JAA:
Joshua didn't go onto your forum and tell you how to train or place a judgement on your sport or practice. If you make comments the way you do here, be prepared to get an honest reaction.
For the record, internet challenges of any kind here are not welcome by both guests and regulars, so kindly refrain from this.
Thanx.
Wayland
Wayland....that's not true.
I'll make this short. Here are my comments:
- The rules of Judo are like they are because of this:
a) To be more appealing to people watching it. That includes people that know very little about judo and just find the throws "cool" and the groundwork boring. Judo wouldn't be as popular if this wasn't the case.
b) To make the sport safer by disallowing techniques like leg locks and neck crushes (using your legs).
- Why do I get the feeling that many people that always want to "change judo" and compare judo with BJJ and MMA, are people that originally saw some UFC tapes, wanted to learn BJJ or MMA, but didn't have a BJJ/MMA school nearby and had to "settle" for Judo classes?
"To be more appealing to people watching it. That includes people that know very little about judo and just find the throws "cool" and the groundwork boring. Judo wouldn't be as popular if this wasn't the case"
Jonpall judo isn't very popular in the US. I understand that judo is a strong sport world-wide (ie. Japan, Korea, France, ect.), but it's not very strong here in the states. If judo's rules are keeping a high percent of US grapplers from participating, then I think we should change some of them to get more grapplers to participate. I don't think that leglocks or heel hooks should be included in judo; however, I do think that newaza times and penalties should definitely be changed.
A lack of a TV audience isn't our immediate problem. The lack of participation in US judo is definitely a problem. If we fix that first, then we can focus on the TV audience.
Challenging people on the web is strange because if you actually go through and loose that could be embarrising. Man the Martial Arts have changed so much in the last 25 years..........
If we change our rules we'll screw all our elite atheletes cause they will have to adjust to internationl scene with diff rules. Or what's more likely they won't do internal competion, and then its the new wave of judokas that get screwed. You have to play by the rules the rest of the world plays by. US is an oddball in many sport why should Judo be any diff.
memphisjudo wrote,
"A lack of a TV audience isn't our immediate problem. The lack of participation in US judo is definitely a problem. If we fix that first, then we can focus on the TV audience."
Damn. That is so true.
Just wish we knew how to fix it. I'm not convinced that trying to bring a better balance of newaza/tachiwaza into the sport is the answer, but its certainly worthy of discussion.
Nullmad wrote,
"If we change our rules we'll screw all our elite atheletes cause they will have to adjust to internationl scene with diff rules."
That is a compelling point. I don't think we can change the rules for all tournaments, but might it make sense to adopt variations of tournament rules, so that judo might appeal to a wider audience?
The rules of the All-Japan championships were different than the IJF rules for a long time. I think they still might be.
judo is fine and always envied by other martial or combat sports because of its success..
personally, i agree about how some components of a typical judo class exclude or do not focus on some aspects of training..so when i teach and practice and study, we get to focus on different things..not your typical judo class..and my whole judo life prior to this endeavour was training to be a successful athlete..
joshua made a good point that it seems that others (at least here in cyber world) want to "fix" judo and "if only it would be this, get rid of that etc" it would be more acceptable...by who? the millions who practice it worldwide? it would only be more specific and applicable to real life..by who? police and millitary organizations world wide that have been using its fundamental curriculum for almost 100 years?
this is not to say that judo is the end all, or that one should not do other arts..go ahead, box, grapple, dance for all i care, if it develops you morally, spiritually and physically and you and your partner can benefit, do it...
judo has evoled over a century and has made a place, albeit with success and drawbacks..but this is what disciplines often do..
in comparison to other arts, judo is very unique with one curriculum, one governing body, and elements for young and old, recreational and athlete, martial artist and not...that alone says something about its organization...
memphis, what was not true? kindly help me out here..
"The rules of the All-Japan championships were different than the IJF
rules for a long time. I think they still might be."
well the all japan has been going on for ever, and tradition etc. and
well its japan.
what pissed me off, is when people tried to change things, or even
talked about changing hockey to get more amercan fans. adding more
teams in the states, and having glowing pucks never did anything to
help the game.
whats would help hockey would be having all the referees call the
game the exact same way. the worst was watching the finals and not
knowing what the ref was going to call, and the refs calling the game
differently later in the game.
Wayland,
I was referring to your statement, "Joshua didn't go onto your forum and tell you how to train or place a judgement on your sport or practice".
"joshua made a good point that it seems that others (at least here in cyber world) want to "fix" judo and "if only it would be this, get rid of that etc" it would be more acceptable...by who? the millions who practice it worldwide? it would only be more specific and applicable to real life..by who? police and millitary organizations world wide that have been using its fundamental curriculum for almost 100 years?"
I realize that judo is practiced by millions worldwide; however, judo is not practiced by millions in the USA. This has been a problem as long as I can remember, and one that has not been resolved. I believe that many have tried and thought of solutions, but apparently none have worked. All I am saying is that there might be thousands of grapplers in the US who might participate in judo if the newaza rules changed a bit.
An example would be how highschool and college wresling is different from Olympic wresling. It doesn't even have to be that extreme either.
you know what, I know resnick is sick with epilepsy and all that shit
But honestly, the guy has never really done anything with the sport, and I see no reason why he would be even considered to be a poster boy. He appears to be more of a prick than anything. So resnick, if your pissing a guy of so much he wants to leave the sport, you would be better off stitching your mouth shut.
Sorry to judoanswersall, he had to get bashed by everyone.
I have not been here long, but from what it seems like, most of posts from resnick have been a pain in the ass.
If you want to help judo guys, I think that we need to try awarding a koka or somethin for getting out of the bottom posistion (without going to standing), so that we have a situation like wrestling. That way we have guys trying real hard to get get something in newaza. Something as simple as this would improve newaza and how it looks.
"you know what, I know resnick is sick with epilepsy and all that shit
But honestly, the guy has never really done anything with the sport"
god there are some really funny people on the internet
It doesn't seem like the rest of the world is in a rush to change the sport. It always sells out quickly at the Olympics, is played by a billion countries, etc. In an effort to make it more popular in the US are we really supposed to change the rules of our tournaments and change it into something different? I don't think that's a good answer.
I'm all about getting something started in the school system. I think it would take a herculean effort and tons of funding (not to mention the coaches that would be needed for even just one city/league) but I'm pretty convinced that we have to get kids thinking of it as a sport rather than a hobby to do twice a week.
memphisjudo wrote,
"I realize that judo is practiced by millions worldwide; however, judo is not practiced by millions in the USA. This has been a problem as long as I can remember, and one that has not been resolved. I believe that many have tried and thought of solutions, but apparently none have worked."
I'm pretty much on the same page here. What has worked in other countries, probably isn't going to work here. We need an American solution for American judo if success is going to be measured by number of practicioners. If its going to be measured strictly by medals, then that's another story. Hopefully, they aren't mutually exclusive goals, but they just might me.
A lot of hope is placed on the media. IF we could get judo on television etc. we could rapidly grow our ranks. While it would help, I don't think it would be as great a help as people think.
Case in point. We just had the Olympics. As far as I can tell, we got more media coverage this time than ever before. There were plenty of articles written about a bunch of athletes. Jimmy Pedro was on national TV several times. There was two nights of coverage of judo on cable. What has been the impact?
None as far as I can tell. Has anyone noticed a big impact on student enrollment at their club because of the wider media coverage associated with the Olympics? Maybe it has happened, but I don't see it.
Maybe there isn't a solution. It very well could be that to make judo more popular in the United States, we'd have to depart dramatically from what the IJF mission is. I honestly don't know the answer.
I do agree with arb10 in that we need to get judo into our school system. Earlier this month, there was a thread that brought up some very good suggestions. One suggestion was to focus our attention and funding on attracting and developing programs that would attract and develop kids.
I do think that allowing more time for newaza and penalizing those who stall during newaza in US judo is an easier and finacially affordable solution to getting higher turn outs at judo events.
This would be a start in the attempt to get more attendance and/or participation in judo and its' events. Hell, I think there are some BJJ/submission grappling events that have over 1000 entries (something that is inconceivable in US Judo). We need to do something! Pointing fingers, blaming whoever, and saying it won't work is not working. If it doesn't work then we can change it back. I'm getting to the point were I don't care what we do to fix it, but let's start trying something.
MJ
Regarding ne waza vs. throwing in Judo:
You can lose in a moment standing via throw. We start standing in shiai.
Ne waza is generally slower, and you generally won't lose in a hearbeat, given relatively equal skill and size.
Judo as a competitive sport has been that way for a long, long time.
So in Judo comps, you had better be damned good on your feet. If not, you will lose.
So people interested in competitive Judo train standup more. Also, it is a lot harder to learn and excell at than ne waza.
In terms of judo's roots, the emphasis on stand up fighting IS more realistic than groundwork. Groundwork as we do it today is really almost entirely sport oriented...again, that's in terms of Judo's roots.
Josh, your grizzly bears on the golf greens just cracked me up!
Ben R.
"I believe that judo should make some changes. For example, allowing more time to transition into newaza and giving stalling or non-combativity penalties to those who are avoiding the transition into newaza. "
More time to transition? How about more practice and getting good at it instead of asking for rule changes?
Groundwork is an option in Judo comps. You can decide whether or not you want to initiate it or not. Why make the rules more restrictive and closed?
The current "rules" on judo groundwork in comps promote agressive action (progress of some sort towards a "final" technique). To me that is a good thing, and is much more combative than slow motion groundwork, and goes nicely with the flexibility of going to the ground or not.
Ben R.
Ben R.