Don't forget judo black belt Luis Santos vs 2x NCAA champ and Olympian Ben Askren. Luis Santos before the fight said "I know he is a great wrestler, but my judo is really strong." Santos used his judo and threw Askren multiple times and making Askren look like an amateur. Everytime they locked up in the clinch Askren went flying. Unfortunately the fight was eventually stopped due to an eyepoke.
Clearly, judo works with the right person and adaptation. 
LawlerPushedInMyBrownEye - My aunt was a national judo champion.
My mom beat the shit out of her utilizing reach and awkward angles. And her shoe.
I remember watching my aunt trying to rush my mom, head down and just getting lit up. My mom kicked her hard as fuck in the gut, took her shoe off and started beating her until my sister pulled her off.
The only other time I saw my mom beat someone up was when this black lady called me and my brother crackas after fighting with her sons. Momma hit her with a Jeremy Stephens uppercut and yes, took her shoe off and best that bitches ass until my uncle pulled her off. Mother use to have a bad temper apparently.
I think what I'm trying to say is that my mom is judo/black lady kryptonite
LOL are you Eddie Murphy?
Btw good posts judom! Interesting insight as to why they removed leg attacks. Obviously your source is a bit judo biased so I'll say it probably lays somewhere in the middle. I think exactly the fact that judo is so widespread and offers athletes to make a decent living, is also what stops them from crossing over to MMA. It's part not in the spirit of judo as it's being actively discouraged by the federation but also they don't need to. Wrestlers have less ways of making money so they're almost forced to go into MMA. It's that or either pro wrestling in the US. But you see the ones that do cross over can be very succesful ie Fedor, Ronda, Lombard etc.
Judo if adapted well for no gi is actually better for mma than wrestling. Leg attacks open you up to getting choked, or a knee or elbow ko to the exposed head. Plus shooting doubles and singles tires out your back and legs. Judo type throws and trips from the clinch alow you to transitions better from striking to clinch to takedown without exposing yourself to unnecessary dangers. Fedor was a master at this type of transition.
judom2 - Guys, good discussion, keep it up, like old UG times :) Some thoughts:
-> failure, I mostly agree with you. In a no-gi grappling situation, esp takedowns, a Judo player will have trouble with a high level wrestler. Of course, it depends, consider this rare grappling match, 2 people with identical record, both from Dagestan, Russia:
Magomed Kurbanaliev (Freestyle Wrestling: European Freestyle Wrestling Champion, World Bronze Medalist) vs.
Kamal Khan Magomedov (Judo: European Judo champion, World Bronze Medalist, guy with all blue)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-FuoOuPV9o
Of course, its practice fun match, but its interesting (Kurbanaliev beat Logan Stieber not long ago). You see its not that simple. In many areas in the world the 2 sports are a bit mixed.
-> These days most judo players, even Olympic level, have horrible leg takedown defense and no leg attacks. However, as I said in my post, they learn so far and they are such physical specimens and have such amazing base, that in 1 year they would be very hard to take down even by elite wrestlers, if they want to study freestyle wrestling. They are just very gifted athletes, and imo, often, more gifted than top wrestlers, because the international competition levels in Judo are higher than Wrestling.
-> I think a lot of the discussion of whether Judo adapts well to MMA somehow takes the rules of Judo today and says, the rules are do not adapt to MMA. Yes, I agree. However, these rules build amazing athletes and with that base they can adapt if they want to.
-> I can share more insights from high-level Judo training, I am good friends with few people (both guys and girls) who are going to Rio this summer for the Olympics, from Europe, the hardest region to qualify from. As I already said, these guys (and girls) are just super tough, not just physically, but mentally too. I've seen some of their injuries, I would say 99% of people would immediately quit, e.g., competing with completely torn muscles, risking career ending injuries at some tournaments, etc.
Here is a fun story. Back in December, I trained with some of them a bit, and one of them (60kg class) cranked out 82 pull ups and this was after a 2 hour judo practice. These were not the cleanest of pull ups, especially towards the end, but the first 50 or so were quite clean.
-> There is confusion about leg takedowns, they were not removed due to wrestlers at all. They were removed as people were stalling like crazy, being ineffective. Also, they wanted to differentiate Judo from wrestling. Wrestling has a very bad reputation in the Olympics now, lots of corruption, which was the real reason they really wanted to remove it from the Olympics (nobody talks about that one).
Note that its much easier to add leg takedowns and defenses to your game than it is to add hip sensitivity and explosiveness. Hip sensitivity and explosiveness (both standing and on the ground) is one of the reasons Fedor dominated people for years. That is a hallmark of high level Judo athletes and is almost impossible to get in any other way. Ronda also has it.
Related to the crossover, John Danaher has an amazing post on his FB about Travis Stevens and the training they've done together:
"Travis Stevens and the soul of the martial arts: It is with considerable pride and happiness that I learned this memorial weekend of the outstanding success of my friend and student, Travis Stevens. Travis won the world Judo masters tournament - an elite invitational tournament where the world's best are pitted against each other in one of the toughest events of the year to win (in jiu jitsu, masters events are the old age events - not in this case). Travis embodies much of what I take to be the deep soul of the martial arts. He is truly one of the hardest working athletes I have ever met. When I asked him to be part of one of Georges St- Pierre's training camps he immediately agreed and became one of the best and most valued members. He would drive up from Boston four hours and cross the border to be first man on the mat and last to leave. Then he would immediately drive back to Boston to do the evening Judo workout under the great Jimmy Pedro. Even Georges, a man of tremendous drive, would often comment approvingly on his discipline and work ethic. Like a true friend, Travis always tries to give as much or more than he takes in a relationship - he came to learn the ground game, but always we benefit from his insight and prowess in the standing game. Whenever Travis comes to town to train with the squad the room crackles with extra energy and verve. He does all this with little to no expectation of financial reward as Judo is not a lucrative sport here in America. I always find it disturbing that a man as tough, skilled and hard working as Travis should make but a fraction of the money as the pampered stars of the far less demanding sports that dominate our public consciousness. Like a true martial artist, Travis works through a stunningly grueling training and competition schedule that would crush the stars of these other sports - with only the love of his art to drive him. Through it all, he keeps an all American optimism and contagious vitality that is a joy to be around and to be inspired by. The first day I met Travis Stevens he applied himself very well and spoke to me after class. He said, "John, don't teach me jiu jitsu for judo - just teach me jiu jitsu." He launched himself into the study of the new sport and soon excelled in it. Now he mixes the two brilliantly. In his victory at the world masters this weekend he used a dynamic mix of tachi waza (standing technique) and ne waza (ground technique) to break through to the winners place on the podium. Here is my favorite image of Travis in action - it tells so much about this man of the mats - All American, all Budo - built to last. Next time you feel tired or apathetic about training picture this image and ask yourself if you really have an excuse to keep you off the mats..."
https://www.facebook.com/john.danaher.96?fref=ts
I've been saying this for years; but we have seen an evolution occur in MMA where strikers are getting so good at defending doubles and singles that grapplers now need to adjust.
Elite wrestlers can obviously still pull off doubles/singles, but your mid-level wrestlers are just getting stuffed, over and over again. There's nothing worse than seeing a wrestler with his head stuffed between some guy's head up against the cage for 45 seconds of the round... unless you're in to that sort of thing (not that there's anything wrong with that).
There is a place in the sport for a type of takedown that is 100% technique based, requires minimum strength and energy, and is extremely effective and efficient. That type of takedown is all manner of Ashi-Waza (Foot techniques) AKA foot sweeps. Particularly chained foot sweeps.
The problem, as Judom has pointed out, is that it takes YEARS to get good at foot sweeps; BUT, I don't think you need to be an expert on them to pull them off in MMA because most of these competitors do not train them defensively, they are more concerned about sprawl training.
We'll see.
I wish I was good at footsweeps, they make it look so easy. Shooting for legs makes me tired just thinking about it :)
failure, hard to argue with you:) I posted a vid but you ignored it :)
jayflo says it right, both are awesome sports.
NicolasRGC, the leg attacks are removed for the reason I said, they actually may bring them back. Also, many people think the Russians/Eastern euro were against removal of leg attacks, turns out they were the ones most arguing for removal:) Go figure :) Japanese don't care either way, it doesn't matter. Their technical level of Judo is amazing, they will win Gold medals, leg attacks or not, its irrelevant.
NicolasRGC -I'm just a humble man with a big ass dickLawlerPushedInMyBrownEye - My aunt was a national judo champion.
My mom beat the shit out of her utilizing reach and awkward angles. And her shoe.
I remember watching my aunt trying to rush my mom, head down and just getting lit up. My mom kicked her hard as fuck in the gut, took her shoe off and started beating her until my sister pulled her off.
The only other time I saw my mom beat someone up was when this black lady called me and my brother crackas after fighting with her sons. Momma hit her with a Jeremy Stephens uppercut and yes, took her shoe off and best that bitches ass until my uncle pulled her off. Mother use to have a bad temper apparently.
I think what I'm trying to say is that my mom is judo/black lady kryptonite
LOL are you Eddie Murphy?
jayflo145 - Why does this have to digress into a "judo vs wrestling" thread? You simpletons not get that they are both extremely useful and practical in MMA and that both art forms totally bad ass!
This quote--from someone who is better at both judo and folkstyle wrestling than anybody else on this thread--should put the argument to rest.
judom2 - failure, hard to argue with you:) I posted a vid but you ignored it :)I don't take your opinion too strongly because of your name. You are obviously a little biased toward. Like I said, start making a list of high level guys who are wrestlers in mma and then make me a list of judo guys. See which list is longer. I'm not saying judo doesn't have a place. The best wrestlers in the entire world all come from former soviet countries. They have a very strong judo influence but it is far from their base.
jayflo says it right, both are awesome sports.
NicolasRGC, the leg attacks are removed for the reason I said, they actually may bring them back. Also, many people think the Russians/Eastern euro were against removal of leg attacks, turns out they were the ones most arguing for removal:) Go figure :) Japanese don't care either way, it doesn't matter. Their technical level of Judo is amazing, they will win Gold medals, leg attacks or not, its irrelevant.
I use a lot of judo moves, it helps slow down better wrestlers than me if the skill is somewhat close. But against the cage and using the current format of scoring under the unified rules. Wrestling is by far the most important grappling style and will continue to dominate because wrestling's system is very similar mma. Both consist of a three period system with a rest in between, both mma and wrestlers receive instruction during the break and both of have a defined point scoring system. High level Wrestling is basically the perfect lead in to an mma career. Judo is done with a jacket, wrestling is not, mma is not.
The best wrestlers in the world have a strong judo influence but at their base, wrestling is still there core. Wrestling will always dominate judo with the context of mma.
And to the guy using Lombard vs shields as an example you are very far off. I like jake shields and believe he is within the top 5 greatest welterweights of all time but he's not really a good wrestler. He was not an all-American and he's not even close to a national level at all. I admire him as much as I do any fighter who has ever stepped foot in the cage but you are wrong about his past wrestling accomplishments
failure at life -judom2 - failure, hard to argue with you:) I posted a vid but you ignored it :)I don't take your opinion too strongly because of your name. You are obviously a little biased toward. Like I said, start making a list of high level guys who are wrestlers in mma and then make me a list of judo guys. See which list is longer. I'm not saying judo doesn't have a place. The best wrestlers in the entire world all come from former soviet countries. They have a very strong judo influence but it is far from their base.
jayflo says it right, both are awesome sports.
NicolasRGC, the leg attacks are removed for the reason I said, they actually may bring them back. Also, many people think the Russians/Eastern euro were against removal of leg attacks, turns out they were the ones most arguing for removal:) Go figure :) Japanese don't care either way, it doesn't matter. Their technical level of Judo is amazing, they will win Gold medals, leg attacks or not, its irrelevant.
I use a lot of judo moves, it helps slow down better wrestlers than me if the skill is somewhat close. But against the cage and using the current format of scoring under the unified rules. Wrestling is by far the most important grappling style and will continue to dominate because wrestling's system is very similar mma. Both consist of a three period system with a rest in between, both mma and wrestlers receive instruction during the break and both of have a defined point scoring system. High level Wrestling is basically the perfect lead in to an mma career. Judo is done with a jacket, wrestling is not, mma is not.
The best wrestlers in the world have a strong judo influence but at their base, wrestling is still there core. Wrestling will always dominate judo with the context of mma.
And to the guy using Lombard vs shields as an example you are very far off. I like jake shields and believe he is within the top 5 greatest welterweights of all time but he's not really a good wrestler. He was not an all-American and he's not even close to a national level at all. I admire him as much as I do any fighter who has ever stepped foot in the cage but you are wrong about his past wrestling accomplishments
"Wrestling is by far the most important grappling style and will continue to dominate because wrestling's system is very similar mma. Both consist of a three period system with a rest in between, both mma and wrestlers receive instruction during the break and both of have a defined point scoring system. High level Wrestling is basically the perfect lead in to an mma career. Judo is done with a jacket, wrestling is not, mma is not."
most salient point made on this thread.
judom2 - failure, hard to argue with you:) I posted a vid but you ignored it :)
jayflo says it right, both are awesome sports.
NicolasRGC, the leg attacks are removed for the reason I said, they actually may bring them back. Also, many people think the Russians/Eastern euro were against removal of leg attacks, turns out they were the ones most arguing for removal:) Go figure :) Japanese don't care either way, it doesn't matter. Their technical level of Judo is amazing, they will win Gold medals, leg attacks or not, its irrelevant.
Hey Judom, did you see that Danaher post? Any thoughts. Cool stuff IMO.
Failure at life - no shit a wrestler takes a judoka in a wrestling match. Wrestling is also the easier transition to MMA no doubt. But you get the judo guy who can adapt his judo to no gi and then you have something.
What you have done however is ignore every post I have made as far as judo being transferable to MMA. I have named a lot of fighters using judo in MMA and instances of judo taking down top flight wrestlers.
Jake Shields was a juco all American wrestler which doesn't make him Cael Sanderson but he generally outwrestles most people he fights. Lombard put a judo clinic on him with a multitude of throws and sweeps.
MMA has a lot of upright clinching that is right in the wheel house of a judo player. It takes more work to transfer to MMA but it can be done.
TexDeuce - Failure at life - no shit a wrestler takes a judoka in a wrestling match. Wrestling is also the easier transition to MMA no doubt. But you get the judo guy who can adapt his judo to no gi and then you have something.Their certainly are a lot of transferable aspects of judo, I'm not denying that. Like I said, the wrestlers from the north caucus are the best in the world, they have a heavy influence of judo throws and trips but it is by no means their base.
What you have done however is ignore every post I have made as far as judo being transferable to MMA. I have named a lot of fighters using judo in MMA and instances of judo taking down top flight wrestlers.
Jake Shields was a juco all American wrestler which doesn't make him Cael Sanderson but he generally outwrestles most people he fights. Lombard put a judo clinic on him with a multitude of throws and sweeps.
MMA has a lot of upright clinching that is right in the wheel house of a judo player. It takes more work to transfer to MMA but it can be done.
Foot sweeps are effortless. Wrestling takedowns are exhausting.
You are really grasping at straws when you try and use shields vs Lombard as an example. Shields really isn't a good wrestler. I've wrestled with D-1 All-Americans and they don't even get anything out of wrestling with me. They take me down at will and are bored. Jake shields (who I admire tremendously) probably wouldn't take these guys down once in a match. I'm not surprised that a judo Olympian can take down a junior college wrestler.
For every instance you name of a judo guy taking down a wrestler, I can name 10 the other way around. I'm not even trying to get into that. My point was, there won't be a judo resurgence in mma. There was never even a judo surge anyway. Wrestling has dominated the grappling aspect of that sport for easily the last 10 years and will continue to do so, it will probably become even more dominant. Grappling against the cage and the current scoring system encourage wrestling. Jiu-jitsu doesn't have nearly as much influence as it did and may disappear from the sport almost all together in the next 10 years. Guys like nurmogomedov, Velasquez and Cormier use almost no jiu-jitsu whatsoever.
AKA doesn't really even teach their guys submissions. They just teach the positional control, pace and punishment of wrestling.
If judo was such an integral part of mma the Japanese fighters would dominate the UFC. They don't, they don't really even win many fights.
failure at life -TexDeuce - Failure at life - no shit a wrestler takes a judoka in a wrestling match. Wrestling is also the easier transition to MMA no doubt. But you get the judo guy who can adapt his judo to no gi and then you have something.Their certainly are a lot of transferable aspects of judo, I'm not denying that. Like I said, the wrestlers from the north caucus are the best in the world, they have a heavy influence of judo throws and trips but it is by no means their base.
What you have done however is ignore every post I have made as far as judo being transferable to MMA. I have named a lot of fighters using judo in MMA and instances of judo taking down top flight wrestlers.
Jake Shields was a juco all American wrestler which doesn't make him Cael Sanderson but he generally outwrestles most people he fights. Lombard put a judo clinic on him with a multitude of throws and sweeps.
MMA has a lot of upright clinching that is right in the wheel house of a judo player. It takes more work to transfer to MMA but it can be done.
Foot sweeps are effortless. Wrestling takedowns are exhausting.
You are really grasping at straws when you try and use shields vs Lombard as an example. Shields really isn't a good wrestler. I've wrestled with D-1 All-Americans and they don't even get anything out of wrestling with me. They take me down at will and are bored. Jake shields (who I admire tremendously) probably wouldn't take these guys down once in a match. I'm not surprised that a judo Olympian can take down a junior college wrestler.
For every instance you name of a judo guy taking down a wrestler, I can name 10 the other way around. I'm not even trying to get into that. My point was, there won't be a judo resurgence in mma. There was never even a judo surge anyway. Wrestling has dominated the grappling aspect of that sport for easily the last 10 years and will continue to do so, it will probably become even more dominant. Grappling against the cage and the current scoring system encourage wrestling. Jiu-jitsu doesn't have nearly as much influence as it did and may disappear from the sport almost all together in the next 10 years. Guys like nurmogomedov, Velasquez and Cormier use almost no jiu-jitsu whatsoever.
AKA doesn't really even teach their guys submissions. They just teach the positional control, pace and punishment of wrestling.
If judo was such an integral part of mma the Japanese fighters would dominate the UFC. They don't, they don't really even win many fights.
I guess luke learned his submission game from gracie university or something.. Bjj will never ever disappear from mma and if it does, u don't see it much cuz everyone knows it but if everyone didn't know it you'd see a bjj guy come in and sub everyone similar to when this all started. Also you're proving the op's point, he's saying the game is dominated by wrestlers so for the guys that don't know much wrestling it might behoove them to add some judo to their game to surprise the wrestlers with some throws/trips/takedowns that they're not familiar with. I think we can all agree wrestling is more effective for mma then judo but that doesn't mean judo isn't effective and doesn't have its place. Maybe you weren't around for pride, they're was plenty of judo guys killing shit including the best fighter of that time. This isn't a wrestling vs judo thread, this is a thread saying knowing some judo might be useful for guys that don't have a wrestling base. Obviously they should also learn some wrestling but adding in some judo might give them an edge in an area that they will never catch up to the guys that have been doing it all their life. It's like saying adding some karate might help in a game dominated by Muay Thai and boxers.. It's not better then Muay Thai but considering nobody was familiar with it guys like machida and now wonderboy were able to come in and dominate people. Etc etc.
TakinAllFades -Luke is a freak athlete who had wrestled briefly in college and had been training jiu-jitsu for awhile before he ever walked into AKA. AKA was his first mma gymfailure at life -TexDeuce - Failure at life - no shit a wrestler takes a judoka in a wrestling match. Wrestling is also the easier transition to MMA no doubt. But you get the judo guy who can adapt his judo to no gi and then you have something.Their certainly are a lot of transferable aspects of judo, I'm not denying that. Like I said, the wrestlers from the north caucus are the best in the world, they have a heavy influence of judo throws and trips but it is by no means their base.
What you have done however is ignore every post I have made as far as judo being transferable to MMA. I have named a lot of fighters using judo in MMA and instances of judo taking down top flight wrestlers.
Jake Shields was a juco all American wrestler which doesn't make him Cael Sanderson but he generally outwrestles most people he fights. Lombard put a judo clinic on him with a multitude of throws and sweeps.
MMA has a lot of upright clinching that is right in the wheel house of a judo player. It takes more work to transfer to MMA but it can be done.
Foot sweeps are effortless. Wrestling takedowns are exhausting.
You are really grasping at straws when you try and use shields vs Lombard as an example. Shields really isn't a good wrestler. I've wrestled with D-1 All-Americans and they don't even get anything out of wrestling with me. They take me down at will and are bored. Jake shields (who I admire tremendously) probably wouldn't take these guys down once in a match. I'm not surprised that a judo Olympian can take down a junior college wrestler.
For every instance you name of a judo guy taking down a wrestler, I can name 10 the other way around. I'm not even trying to get into that. My point was, there won't be a judo resurgence in mma. There was never even a judo surge anyway. Wrestling has dominated the grappling aspect of that sport for easily the last 10 years and will continue to do so, it will probably become even more dominant. Grappling against the cage and the current scoring system encourage wrestling. Jiu-jitsu doesn't have nearly as much influence as it did and may disappear from the sport almost all together in the next 10 years. Guys like nurmogomedov, Velasquez and Cormier use almost no jiu-jitsu whatsoever.
AKA doesn't really even teach their guys submissions. They just teach the positional control, pace and punishment of wrestling.
If judo was such an integral part of mma the Japanese fighters would dominate the UFC. They don't, they don't really even win many fights.I guess luke learned his submission game from gracie university or something.. Bjj will never ever disappear from mma and if it does, u don't see it much cuz everyone knows it but if everyone didn't know it you'd see a bjj guy come in and sub everyone similar to when this all started. Also you're proving the op's point, he's saying the game is dominated by wrestlers so for the guys that don't know much wrestling it might behoove them to add some judo to their game to surprise the wrestlers with some throws/trips/takedowns that they're not familiar with. I think we can all agree wrestling is more effective for mma then judo but that doesn't mean judo isn't effective and doesn't have its place. Maybe you weren't around for pride, they're was plenty of judo guys killing shit including the best fighter of that time. This isn't a wrestling vs judo thread, this is a thread saying knowing some judo might be useful for guys that don't have a wrestling base. Obviously they should also learn some wrestling but adding in some judo might give them an edge in an area that they will never catch up to the guys that have been doing it all their life. It's like saying adding some karate might help in a game dominated by Muay Thai and boxers.. It's not better then Muay Thai but considering nobody was familiar with it guys like machida and now wonderboy were able to come in and dominate people. Etc etc.
"Jiu-jitsu doesn't have nearly as much influence as it did and may disappear from the sport almost all together in the next 10 years."
Woah woah there horsey. Jiu jitsu is more than just submissions, it's the entire positional system which everybody still trains. Without it you'd have no guard passing, side control, mount, back mount etc in MMA. I agree we're seeing less submissions from the guard but all the more from the back and the positional control from which you can punch more effectively is very much BJJ based and will never go away.
Failure at life you are starting to go off the deep end. Time to eject from this thread.
failure at life -judom2 - failure, hard to argue with you:) I posted a vid but you ignored it :)I don't take your opinion too strongly because of your name. You are obviously a little biased toward. Like I said, start making a list of high level guys who are wrestlers in mma and then make me a list of judo guys. See which list is longer. I'm not saying judo doesn't have a place. The best wrestlers in the entire world all come from former soviet countries. They have a very strong judo influence but it is far from their base.
jayflo says it right, both are awesome sports.
NicolasRGC, the leg attacks are removed for the reason I said, they actually may bring them back. Also, many people think the Russians/Eastern euro were against removal of leg attacks, turns out they were the ones most arguing for removal:) Go figure :) Japanese don't care either way, it doesn't matter. Their technical level of Judo is amazing, they will win Gold medals, leg attacks or not, its irrelevant.
I use a lot of judo moves, it helps slow down better wrestlers than me if the skill is somewhat close. But against the cage and using the current format of scoring under the unified rules. Wrestling is by far the most important grappling style and will continue to dominate because wrestling's system is very similar mma. Both consist of a three period system with a rest in between, both mma and wrestlers receive instruction during the break and both of have a defined point scoring system. High level Wrestling is basically the perfect lead in to an mma career. Judo is done with a jacket, wrestling is not, mma is not.
The best wrestlers in the world have a strong judo influence but at their base, wrestling is still there core. Wrestling will always dominate judo with the context of mma.
And to the guy using Lombard vs shields as an example you are very far off. I like jake shields and believe he is within the top 5 greatest welterweights of all time but he's not really a good wrestler. He was not an all-American and he's not even close to a national level at all. I admire him as much as I do any fighter who has ever stepped foot in the cage but you are wrong about his past wrestling accomplishments
Well i think youre a little biased yourself, theres a lack of judokas transitioning to MMA, but i already said that theres a wrestler flooding, so...
I repeat this is not a judo vs wrestling thread but wrestling is easy to translate almost directly, but ya judo is practiced in a jacket, guess what else is? bjj, that didnt stop bjj players to apply their technique and submit dafuk out of wrestlers, until they had to adapt and train for submissions. So theres that..
If you dont like the example of Shields vs Lombard, then explain Santos vs Askren, you conveniently ignored those posts, or lately i just saw a match between your eastern wrestler, Rustam Khabilov vs Norman Parke, a judo bb, i dont even think he takes full advantage of it, and he was just fine.
The fact that everyone does wrestling doesnt mean its the best only option it might just mean its the easiest to transition.