Okay, I know my personal viewpoint on Judo is shared by a few other people on here(MFC, Resnick, Honorate, Todd Milhoan)and that viewpoint is that Judoka should be good grapplers. My gym is not one that has Judo players that don't know what a sprawl is, or how to properly defend an armbar.
Here is my dilemna, one of my students is a black belt(shodan). He switched from another gym and is having problems dealing with our philosophys. I really impress fighting spirit along with technique. I believe in being well rounded and having good skills standing and on the ground. He's getting killed by my white and yellow belt Judoka on the ground and not doing great standing.
I felt it was huge accomplishment as a coach getting him to attempt Kata Guruma, but this week we went to another gym and a friend of mine who does Jiujitsu as well was present. My student was getting raped on the ground so he decides to talk this person in to doing stand up. He then proceeded to get owned and taken completely out of his game. My other students that were present stood aside and watched and made comments on what they were observing. My Jiujitsu player friend was shooting double(Morote Gari)without allowing this person to get to grips and it destroyed his game. Afterwards my other students were trying to talk to him and tell him that this is why we work on the sprawl and Uchimata off of leg attacks and circling off the sprawl(which he doesn't do, he feigns interest when we work on these things). His response "that wasn't Judo he was doing!" I chimed in for the first time and said "___, Morote Gari is a legal technique in Judo and he just played YOUR game better than you did." "___that means you need to work on your game so you can deal with that type of player as well as the other guys in the gym!" I was later told that he said rarely will we run into anyone that does that around here and thank goodness one of my younger students said "what if you meet one of us in a tournament?" "We do the same thing and use lots of picks...what will you do then?"
Should I sit him down and talk to him again in private about why we believe in a well rounded game or just wait and see if he will come around?
Jarvis
It's nice to see a coach take that kind of interest in his students' progress. But personally, I doubt there's much you can do for this guy. If repeated, humiliating defeats don't motivate him to open his mind and improve his game, I don't know what would. You can tell him what he needs to do to improve, and be as encouraging as possible, but you can't put a spine into a jellyfish.
To be honest, it sounds like he was promoted before he was ready, and now he doesn't want to admit weakness because he has a self-image ("I'm a shodan") to defend. I've seen this sort of thing before. Usually these guys get tired of being humiliated by lower-ranking players and quit.
I'd prod him to think outside of the box and expand his horizons, tell him not to worry about winning and losing in randori but concentrate on your dojo philosphy, give it a chance, and soon enough: presto ala kazam he will be holding his own and enjoying himself, and become a tuff nut to handle in shiai.
Scythrop: I hate to admit this, but I believe you may be correct. I honestly think he is(and I'm being generous)Sankyu material. I'm not going to use his former instructors name because he is an IJF ref and well known, but his students are just horrible! I'm not being mean either, but they are just atrocious and this guy follows in that vein. This particular student has all the makings of a good player, but I believe he is so afraid of getting beat that all that matters to him now is the cloth around his waist. WHAT ABOUT PRIDE, WHAT ABOUT PRIDE IN YOUR GYM???!!! What about competitive spirit???!!! I honestly think I have finally run into my first student in Judo that I don't know how to motivate or help improve. God knows, I hope that I'm wrong, but I'll know very soon.
I have even gone as far as staying late to get him to see the value in grip fighting the way we do instead of justing standing in front of his opponent and throwing his arms out to get grips and he doesn't really even take the time to try the grips out by using them in practice...which is the laboratory for our gym. We'll see.
Osaekomi: I hope it happens, but he has been at my gym for 10 weeks now and I'm really seeing no change in attitude, which is most important to me. I'm not giving up, but in some ways I feel as if he's wasting his money.
Jarvis
tell him to look at the katas and the original throws of judo. kata guruma and morote gari are in them.
then tell him these throws are being used at the highest levels of competition by people who could blow his doors off easily.
from there.. make it known that in your dojo this is how things work. he can choose to take part in all you have to offer and learn it all or he can keep his chin and nose to the sky and keep getting his ass kicked in like a lil girl.
the choice is his.
there comes a point where you have to accept that attitudes dont change easily and as a coach you need to take tough love as often as concern.
Ask him what belt he really wears at the club that he came from.
For every hammer there are a thousand nails.
Spacemanspiff:LOL...that's funny, but unfortunately he actually was awarded a Shodan a couple of years ago. I was present when the belt was given to him. *sigh*...how sad really:-)
MitsuyoMaeda: could you repost that pic "Got Standup" w/Inoue launching Gill. If you can put it here, if not cool.
Resnick: You're so correct about attitudes not changing easily.
Jarvis
id just tell him "in a year my white belts will be beyond your skill level in gripping, throwing, trnasition and.. .. . ... unless you finally realize that having a backelt means absolutley nothing if you cant go out there night after night and prove you deserve it."
the best thing in the world is seeing some whiney lil baby walk off the mat saying "that wasnt judo" after the ref called ippon and awarded the match.
Don't feel bad about him wasting his money, if he keeps coming that's his choice. He hasn't quit yet, that's a good sign.
Also, what about your attitude about him? Does it embarass you now that he is "your" student and gets ass-raped by mudansha?
If he won't change, you are not responsible. He has to make his own choices. If he's paying his dues, I'd let him get ass-raped and keep training him how you do the rest of your students. He'll either change or get to like being ass-raped.
I think that's the most times I've ever used "ass-raped" in one post.
Ben R.
I have had a problem kinda like this but reversed. When I train at another club for much of the year, one of the insructers tuts and asks me to practice throws like haraigoshi when he sees me doing uchikomi for morote-gari. Doesnt seem to matter I can beat most of his "long term" players standing. I do other throws, I mean my best techqiue is osoto and kosoto gari. But I do like my uranage and te-guruma.
But on the plus, he wants us to learn kata-guruma as he recognises it is one of the highest scoring techniques of judo at the moment and I am willing to put the time in to learn it. Only problem is he only knows kataguruma from watching a lot of matches (he is a ref) so if anyone wants to gives tips on getting in for this throw, they'd be much appreciated ;)
Ben: It doesn't bother me at all that he gets "ass raped" by mudansha...it bothers me that he gets "ass raped" and is non-chalant about why! He doesn't show any competitive spirit, always has an excuse and seems content to have the "black belt" around his waist. That would bother me if he were on the football team I coach. Yes, I'm sure some of it is P-R-I-D-E, but who doesn't have pride involved when it comes to wanting to excel? I just want a guy I know could be much better than he already is to be willing to say "it's not about the belt, it's about my ability to perform and my knowledge."
Resnick: Dude, that is one of the funniest scenarios I love to see. Player gets thrown with Morote Gari, Ippon is called, comes off the mat "I bet I could have outgripped him IF he had played Judo with me, he didn't want to do Judo." all while the other player is walking off victorious. Beautiful irony.
Jarvis
Ben: You did use the term "ass raped" quite a bit. It's good to see you having a good time again. :-)
Rodgie: Keeping working on Kata Guruma and trying out weird angles. You will find that hitting angles makes this throw even faster.
Jarvis
"Ben: It doesn't bother me at all that he gets "ass raped" by mudansha...it bothers me that he gets "ass raped" and is non-chalant about why! He doesn't show any competitive spirit, always has an excuse and seems content to have the "black belt" around his waist."
OK, maybe that is his choice. Maybe he doesn't care if he wins or loses.
That would bother me if he were on the football team I coach. Yes, I'm sure some of it is P-R-I-D-E, but who doesn't have pride involved when it comes to wanting to excel? I just want a guy I know could be much better than he already is to be willing to say "it's not about the belt, it's about my ability to perform and my knowledge." "
Yeah, I always want my students to be the best they can be. But sometimes they don't really want to be.
So I just keep plugging away.
Not saying I disagree with your point of view, just playing devil's advocate.
Ben R.
Ben: "Yeah, I always want my students to be the best they can be. But sometimes they don't really want to be."
I appreciate it and I admit it is hard for me to fathom that maybe he just doesn't want to be the best that he can be. I'll say this though he is one of those people who looks great when he is winning, but things go away from him slightly and he folds like a tent. I honestly believe it is the difference in level of competition in our gym as opposed to his old one. I mean the majority of my white and yellow belts are Jiujitsu men who I convinced they needed some stand up and the higher ranking belts are real killers and would rather throw you than speak to you.
"OK, maybe that is his choice. Maybe he doesn't care if he wins or loses."
This would make me go home and cut off my right hand. I can ACCEPT a loss and congratulate the guy who kicked my ass, but I CARE BADLY. I can walk you through every loss I have ever had in Judo. That's not hyperbole, that's the truth. I can tell you how I was a complete Jackass and followed Mike Ostrowski, how I pushed too much of my weight forward on Reno Reser, how I kept opening my body up on Enrique Cruz, how I was baited into raising up by Steve Jensen, et al. I CARE and I would hope anyone in our gym would care. Again, this is me and the mindset that I want MY gym to have. Be graceful in defeat, but abhor defeat and work harder than ever to fix what went wrong.
"So I just keep plugging away."
That's what I'm doing right now, I guess it just concerns me that I haven't been able to reach him. Thanks as always.
Jarvis
jarvis, how's it going super dad? dont worry about that guy. I knew from the beginning that he wasnt going to be easy to convert. He came in thinking that he was going to be dominant running stuff. he got hit with kuchiki taoshi morote gari and ankle picks all night his first night and his first response was that bullshit about 'i thought we were doing Judo'. let it rest and if he wants to be New Breed fine, if not screw him and let him join the heap of bodys well leave behind. I'll call you wehn i leave the hospital
lmao @ the "that's not judo" morons who can't accept that they got beat with what they don't know. I had that happen to me more times in my first year than I care to remember, till my coach pointed out to them that those are ALL moves in the kodokan syllabus and instead of complaining they should try to learn how to DEFEND against them. I swear these people NEED to be thrown on their heads a couple of times to file their egos down.
lmao @ the "that's not judo" morons who can't accept that they got beat with what they don't know. I had that happen to me more times in my first year than I care to remember, till my coach pointed out to them that those are ALL moves in the kodokan syllabus and instead of complaining they should try to learn how to DEFEND against them. I swear these people NEED to be thrown on their heads a couple of times to file their egos down.
i dont understand how in the US we have such a shitty attitude about that stuff. "that isnt judo" sure as shit wont fly anywhere else in the world.
you can go to japan and those guys will throw you with a fireman's carry now just as they would a seionage. well, maybe not as often, but they sure as shit do it. they'll throw uranage too, always have from my experiences. sukui-nage is used there too quite a bit.
how, in the US, we have these people with a more "traditional" attitude than even the birthplace of judo ill never understand.
"how, in the US, we have these people with a more "traditional" attitude than even the birthplace of judo ill never understand."
Resnick: I'm glad someone else shares the same frustration about that attitude that I do. Sad part is that a lot of the "higher ups" people in charge think like that. A change is coming in the near future ladies and gentlemen and the U.S.A will not be 41st, 31st or 21st in the world. We will make a hard move into the top 10 and guys such as Swain, Dave Williams, Jason Morris, Jimmy Pedro, Pat Burris, Resnick, MFC, Rhadi Ferguson, New Breed Judo, Judo America and numerous others will push it there.
HunterV: If I have to hear one more person I throw for Ippon with Kata Guruma say "you're a good wrestler, but you should try some Judo!!!" I think I'm going to scream. It's okay our day is coming ladies and gentlemen.
Jarvis