And Royce, I guess, was a high level white belt. Renzo a blue maybe?
Pretty stupid thing to say. So Kron who is modern day with the Rickosn style can win but the family champion no? Seriously the mat doesn't lie. When all sorts of Black Belts say how good Rickson is that is a fact. People would love to doscredit him but none do. Know why! It's because he is that dam good.
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i wonder if he's related to Don
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jcblass - And Royce, I guess, was a high level white belt. Renzo a blue maybe?
Lol
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Soul Gravy -WrestlingSucks -The evolution of bjj has been mostly in the sport sense. That constant rolling into leg entanglement stuff is great on a mat and with no striking allowed but very few people can make it work in an mma or self-defense scenario.
Rickson fought no weight classes back when everybody was just kind of hoping their style was the best because there wasn't much data to support anybodies claim. That's a blackbelt.
It's pretty absurd to assume that Rickson wouldnt be able to hang today when his son uses his same style and butt rapes all kinds of top level rubber guarding, imanari rolling, 50/50 diving grapplers.
This 100%.
Absolutely.
I've actually never heard another pro athlete state:
Gretzky would be a good minor leaguer.
Jordan would be a superstar in the G League.
Pretty stupid to not consider the previous best would have adapated.
Slobonmynog -Whilst the sport has undoubtedly evolved. Prime Rickson subs prime Keenan any day of the week.
Roger gracie submitted buchecha who is arguably top of the sport jiu jitsu tree fairly recently and he is an exponent of the traditional bjj style.
But Roger is also a sport BJJ guy, it's not like he only did self defence bjj or Gracie jiu jitsu and then came out of nowhere and tapped Buchecha. Roger is 10x IBJJF world champion. He's been doing sports bjj tournaments his whole life. I also think Buchecha beat him the first match too but Roger is still the goat
I think Rogan said years back that Rickson's back is completely fucked up now so he can't roll hard anymore. So any speculation on his abilities today is pointless.
I choose to believe his hype simply because of the universal consensus that seems to exist that he really was the best. I am not a BJJ practicioner but everything I have read since the 90’s, all the quotes from all the big names say that he is the best. If it was a sham then I think more people would come forward and point it out. When there is consensus, when the professionals agree then I think you should accept that rather than the rants of one single person. What I always questioned regarding Rickson was his percieved Vale Tudo abilities, there is just not enough evidence to support that, not by a long shot. In the late 90s he spent his time fighting bums in Japan of which only one (Yuki Nakai) was a capable fighter and Nakai was a beat-up, half-blind lightweight. Yup, he beat Funaki impressively in 2000 but that is it. The pool was thin during these times but we had Kerr, Vovchanchyn, Sakuraba, Frank Shamrock, Belfort, Erikson, it’s not like in 1993 when no established MMA fighters existed apart from the Brazilians and Pancrase guys. There was a higher level of fighters in the end of the 90s but he never fought them.
Not necessarily his fault, the Japs wanted him to fight a pro-wrestler twice and he always said that “no serious offers” ever came up after the Funaki fight. Who knows, but it seems unlikely at best to think he could have dealt with the beasts of his time like Vovchanchyn.
JoeVIP -Well there is only one way to find out for Keenan. Hop on a plane to Brazil, walk into Ricksons gym and tell him to his face that he is only as good as a tough purple belt then ask him to roll.
Are you serious? Keenan would slaughter Rickson in Rickson's prime. God knows what he'd do to him now.
Old heads get too emotional about this topic - Keenan is correct. Shouldn't be controversial either, sports evolve. It would be a miracle if today's guys WEREN'T miles better than the top of the heap in 1998.
What is so different about Roger's style compared to Rickson? Roger used the exact same approach and is arguably the greatest sport BJJ competitor ever.
There are stories out there of Rickson schooling Xande and Xaulo in there prime, just with old school pressure and top control. Rickson goes to explain how he had to use his weight to tire them because they were in better shape at the time.
I am no great anything. As a purple I heard all the bullshit about Rickson and I thought as many on my Team ( What the F$%* ). How good can a guy really be. Coming from the Carlson Gracie Team I had wrestled with the best and I knew what the damn deal was. I was smoking everyone in tournaments as a purple back then and I figuered of course I would get worked but I was pretty legit and it could not have been that bad if I rolled with Rickson. I mean what could he possibly do that I had not seen. I got a private, I waited about 2 months for it. I got so fucked up when we finally rolled I questioned everything and I mean everything that I had ever learned or thought about Jiu-Jitsu. I am a Black Belt today under World Champion Rodrigo Medeiros ( Carlson Gracie / BJJ Revolution Team ) I fight regularly in MMA and I have trained with any and everyone you could imagine. Rickson is FUCKING FOR REAL. THERE IS NO MYSTIC, LEGEND OR MYSTERY. HE IS JUST A FUCKING REAL LIVE JIU-JITSU WAR MACHINE MONSTER THAT BRINGS GAME YOU CANNOT COMPREHEND. UNLESS YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED IT YOU WILL NEVER KNOW AND MANY DON'T EVEN HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE TO KNOW HOW BAD HE IS WHEN THE SESSION IS GOING DOWN BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT EVEN GOOD ENOUGH TO RECOGNIZE THE DOMINANCE THAT IS TAKING PLACE. Check me out on OTM or Sherdog. I am legit and this motherfucker is off the fucking charts. What Paulo said doesn't surprise me in the least. I don't mean to rant and I jock ride no man ever. I rarely ever post on this website or any other. I am just dropping a peice of knowledge that I possess so the masses know that my experience was felt and my life was changed by a guy that felt inhuman to roll with. Tim Credeur
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"Among Rickon's teaching stints was one in San Diego training Navy Seals, the Navy's elite team of commandos. As class started, the majority of the Seals joined in, eager to learn new techniques that would help them become even better fighters. However, "Killer" - one of the leaders of the group, and the largest and best conditioned Seal - was highly skeptical about anything Rickson demonstrated, and constantly said so. "
"Near the end of the session, Rickson told the group he was going to spar with all of them. Killer immediately jumped to the front of the line, ready to show Rickson and his teammates that this stuff did not work. Rickson asked him to please step to the end of the line and wait his turn, and began the sparring session. Typically in Brazilian jiu-jitsu, these practices begin with both fighters on their knees to avoid injuries that can occur during takedowns, especially when novices to the sport are involved. So Rickson proceeded to submit each Navy Seal twice, until he finally reached Killer, who had been waiting so anxiously for his turn that he was practically foaming from the mouth. Rickson then motioned Killer to get to his knees, but Killer had other ideas, and indicated that he wanted them to start this "match" on their feet. Rickson looked at Killer, smiled, stoodup, and asked if he was ready. Killer nodded and the match was on. Within seconds, Rickson clinched Killer and took him down. Despite all of his physical prowess, Killer could not avoid Rickson's serpentlike moves as he slowly and methodically worked his way into the advantageous back position and choked Killer into submission.
"Killer immediately jumped up and demanded a rematch. Again Rickson took him down with the same routine, submitting Killer once again. The scene repeated itself several times, as Rickson continued to submit Killer again and again, each time in a different way, each time more quickly than the time before, until exhausted and befuddled Killer asked to stop. From that day on Killer's doubts transformed into admiration. He became one of the most devoted practitioners, always first to class."
I asked Rani Yayha and Andre Galvao who both trained with Rickson within the last 5 years if he was that good. They both said he was amazing and Rickson was in his late 40s at the time.
http://flow-with-the-go.blogspot.com/2010/08/rickson-gracie-faq.html
"I keep hearing that Rickson is some sort of BJJ legend. How good is he, really?
Very good. Rickson earned his black belt in 1980, at the age of 18, and has never been tapped in competition. As a matter of fact, nobody has ever come forth claiming to have tapped him OUTSIDE of competition. To this day, there are testimonies of current jiu jitsu greats praising him. The most recent was Andre Galvao, who claimed Rickson had tapped him multiple times and he himself hadn't managed a single submission.
Other BJJ athletes who spare no hyperboles towards Rickson's skill on the mat are Demian Maia, Nino Schembri, Paulo Filho, Royce Gracie, and Ricardo Arona, to name a few."
Henry Akins: Oh gosh, I don't want to call anyone out or make anyone look bad.
FightWorks Podcast: Oh, definitely without naming names, but I guess just some sort of context.
Henry Akins: I'll give you a story, and this is one of the stories that I really like. I had always seen it and always been around it, and you always see all these guys come to the academy and Rickson train with them, and at the time the world champion in jiu jitsu and all of a sudden he's tapping out, but there was one year that a guy came to the academy and he had just got done winning the Pan Ams in Hawaii. He was already multiple time world jiu jitsu champion. Rickson hadn't actually trained for a few months because he had a pretty nagging groin injury.
So, we had this guy coming through, and of course Rickson showed up at the academy that night because he knew he was coming through, and he taught the class. After teaching the class, the competitor asked Rickson if he wanted to train. Of course, Rickson was like, "sure." Rickson told all of us to start training already, but as soon as they started training, the mat clears off, right? Everybody is sitting around the corner – we're supposed to be training, but we're just like, "oh my god, Rickson is training with this guy!"
So they started training, and probably after five or six minutes – and it was a really good pace, back and forth, back and forth – Rickson makes this guy tap, from his closed guard. Then they go again, and after like another three minutes, Rickson makes him tap from cross side, from just laying on him cross side. It wasn't even an armlock or a choke, it was just the pressure from cross side.
That's what blows me away, because at that time Rickson was around fifteen years older – I think Rickson was around forty – he hadn't trained in a while, and was still able to do that, just from knowing how to use pressure and pace and breathing. At the time, this was one of the best guys in the world, had just got back from winning the Pan Ams in Hawaii, and you have Rickson tapping him out in a couple of minutes, and then tapping him again in even less time, from just cross side.
Rickson: That's not true. It was the fight in which I was the most intelligent strategically. We fought twice. Once was in the semifinal on Sunday, the other was in the finals. I entered as a favor to Oswaldo (Alves). When I registered for the competition, I was meio pesado and Penha was pesado. I had 84 kg. and he had 93 kg. When I was registering, Oswaldo was there and said ""Professor, I have a good fighter [galo bom] for you there, a very tough guy [um negocio mais brigador]. I said "I know you have a champion there, a man of steel, I've heard a lot of good things about him." We exchanged pleasantries and I registered for meio pesado and absoluto. Oswaldo said, "Boy, in meio pesado? Serginho is pesado". I said "then I will register for pesado so we can soon have a double party". The first Sunday, we were in pesado or absoluto and I won by arm lock. He tapped quickly and was injured. I think it was bad luck. I'm not saying nothing, he was a good guy, but I felt that he had never been finalized so fast as that and was dissatisfied. That was before Rockson was born. My son was born, on Tuesday, and I was Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday without sleeping. I didn't train that week.. I stayed in the hospital, didn't sleep at all, and only put on my quimono on the way to the championship. It was the final Sunday of the peso and absoluto. In one fight I met Macarrão and in the other I met Serginho. Macarrão said "I'm not going to fight you" and conceded.. Serginho was lusting for revenge and when the fight started I felt like I was out of gas. The whole crowd was shouting "Courage Sergio, go, go, now, go"......and my quiet group of supporters didn't understand what was happening. In the middle of the fight my quimono slipped up over my head and I got up to fix my belt, and I asked Rolls to say that I wanted to stop for three minutes. I was already down 7 or 8 points. He had passed my guard twice, not mounted, but had passed my guard, and attacked but his finalization attempt was insufficient. He had a good base. The fight resumed. I thought I pretended to be dead, you know [eu me fiz de morto entendeu?] He was confident. I pulled guard. When he tried to pass, I reversed him, took the side, mounted, took his neck and put him to sleep. He didn't tap, he slept. He was a valiant guy, the first time he yelled and the second time he slept, he didn't want to tap again.
sekundarburnes -JoeVIP -Well there is only one way to find out for Keenan. Hop on a plane to Brazil, walk into Ricksons gym and tell him to his face that he is only as good as a tough purple belt then ask him to roll.
Are you serious? Keenan would slaughter Rickson in Rickson's prime. God knows what he'd do to him now.
Old heads get too emotional about this topic - Keenan is correct. Shouldn't be controversial either, sports evolve. It would be a miracle if today's guys WEREN'T miles better than the top of the heap in 1998.
Yes I'm serious. I don't know Rickson, I don't have any personal experience rolling with him, and I don't know how he is physically these days. But I know talking shit about a 60 year old legend is weak in my opinion. Especially one that put his ass on the line in real fights. Not just pajama wrestling.
But I'm sure he would back up his claim by rolling with Rickson. And even at 60 I bet he finds out Rickson is better than a tough purple belt regardless of the outcome.
Just because Rickson and Helio couldn't possibly have known BJJ moves that were yet to be invented doesn't make them purple belt level.
FACT: A 60 year old Rickson would submit Keenan TODAY. Rickson is better at the fundamentals than most if not all BJJ practioners of 2019.
Just because most people in BJJ gloss over the fundamentals and then learn a gagillion newer techniques doesn't make them a higher belt level than a BJJ practioner who has super strong fundementals and a more traditional style.
This gets brought up often.
To believe that Rickson’s BJJ was not amazing is to assume a massive conspiracy of lies among a diverse set of BJJ practitioners over the course of a generation.
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sekundarburnes -JoeVIP -Well there is only one way to find out for Keenan. Hop on a plane to Brazil, walk into Ricksons gym and tell him to his face that he is only as good as a tough purple belt then ask him to roll.
Are you serious? Keenan would slaughter Rickson in Rickson's prime. God knows what he'd do to him now.
Old heads get too emotional about this topic - Keenan is correct. Shouldn't be controversial either, sports evolve. It would be a miracle if today's guys WEREN'T miles better than the top of the heap in 1998.
I disagree. I've trained for 21 years and I just don't see that at all. New guys are flashier and plenty of them are extremely good, no doubt. But I'd still take prime Rickson over Keenan. I think Roger is better than Keenan and and I don't think Roger is much different than Rickson.
I trained with Saulo years ago and he isn't a bullshitter and he couldn't compliment Rickson enough and said he was the best he'd ever rolled with. I trust his opinion.