Missing Glove Tape -
There's no denying McCann could benefit from a solid grappling background, I've said it myself.
I watched about 15 minutes of that shit. More than enough.
I am an experienced grappler. I'm also former military. I'll let the others chime in as they wish.
Fucking 10ers...
Skpotamus -Shouldn't someone have a solid background in something before they start trying to teach it or teach how to defend against it?
What he's done is taken his well earned reputation for a firearms instructor and released a DVD on an area he obviously has little to no knowledge in, to make money. I'd rather spend my money on someone who knows more about the subject matter. YMMV.
"Well earned combatives reputation" means he's a badass in certain internet circles.
BEEF & CHEESE - "Well earned combatives reputation" means he's a badass in certain internet circles.
I work in security and have quite a lot of friends in law enforcement, and my experience, based on firsthand information from the private security sector and both first- and secondhand information from the LE sector, is that the standard of 'official' CQC curricula in both sectors is quite poor. The guys who are serious about CQC, and have the experience to discern what works or not, tend to train primarily in MMA or other full contact disciplines, supplemented with specific tactical scenario training.
Missing Glove Tape,
i'm sorry. if a guy is trying that clavicle shit on me and i have a triangle on, he is getting molested.
it's like the guys who say "i'd bite someone or gouge an eye if they grappled w/ me".
what's to say i wouldn't do worse?
the guy is constantly referencing mma or what an mma fighter might do, etc... he should not teach that rubbish technique on the ground.
i won't speak to the standup stuff as i'm NOT AN EXPERT AT WTF HE IS SAYING, but he shouldn't dare pass that garbage off fro the ground.
he's showing things that are real bad technique against really retarded people that for some reason decide they want to slap on triangles or pretend mma while ina streetfight.
it's delusional and so are your posts.
Shemhazai - ....The guys who are serious about CQC, and have the experience to discern what works or not, tend to train primarily in MMA or other full contact disciplines, supplemented with specific tactical scenario training.
Shemhazai - is that the standard of 'official' CQC curricula in both sectors is quite poor.
Missing Glove Tape -I had somebody do that when I was younger. They tried to do it from inside a triangle choke, tried pinching my thigh and biting, (bite didn't work at all of course), then they grabbed for my clavicle. My response was to pull their hand away and choke them unconscious after they tapped.
Have you ever tried the claivicle shit or had it tried on you?
Missing Glove Tape -
The difference here is that McCann has a 'well earned reputation' for combatives as well. And in my opinion this material is simply an extension of that training paradigm offering input/solutions to the rise in popularity of grappling.
Missing Glove Tape -The standard defenses are going to work a lot better than "poke them in the eye or pinch them and hope it makes them let go", aka, what he shows. Use your standard escapes to escape, then fuck them up with the shit he shows from a position of dominance.
Think about it. If you're really 'caught' in a triangle how likely are the standard escapes going to work before you go to sleep? Especially in an adrenal state where you're afraid for your life? Therefore, you've got just a few seconds to turn the tide as they say, so you're going to try and hurt/disable your opponent as quickly as possible. The clavicle shit, gouges, squashing and biting ball sacks, taints and hip creases is basically all you have when you don't possess Rampage type strength to power bomb your opponent and/or you're positionally unable to.
Missing Glove Tape -The idea of the tape wasn't to train LEO and military guys to be MMA fighters, but teach them how to defend against the things they might run into if they do have to fight a MMA guy. How to defend and defeat what they might do. That said, since McCann obviously doesn't know how to properly do those techniques (nor does his partner in the video), how can he teach effective counters to things he doesn't know? He's a virgin trying to tell a bunch of old whores how to screw.
A solid base is one thing. A good thing. But again, I don't want to see those in military and law enforcement circles training to be cage fighters, complete with superman punches and rubber guards. This material is better for those environments because it helps people overcome the gap in size and skill that often exists in dangerous, life/death situations, without the end user being forced into protracted grappling contests where time(fatigue, friends/reinforcements, etc) is not on their side.
Missing Glove Tape -
I'm also a fan of mma-based training programs such as ISR Matrix, MACP, and Southnarc's material. But ask any of them if there's not a difference in attitude and application between 'sport' and dangerous life/death situations that doesn't require adjustments in their training/teaching. The answer will undoubtedly be yes, and they'd be lying if they said otherwise. Hell, even the Army has made adjustments to the MACP program that includes a greater emphasis on standup training(ie: not getting drawn into protracted grappling contests), weapons retention and how to handle mass attack situations. Straight mma mindset, curriculum and rule sets taught/trained by 'experienced combat athletes' just doesn't cut it.
Missing Glove,
i've had people try crazy things, street altercation type things from within a triangle and from other positions. in each instance, they didn't have a leg to stand on.
positionally dominate and then maybe try that bs if you want.
to be frank and honest, i'm offended by this guy teaching this w/ what you are deaming, a paradigm to the increase in grappling's popularity. i don't pretend to know how to be a LEO or a world class wrestler or kickboxer. this guy has no RIGHT to give this advice because he may be looked at as a guy w/ a 'well earned reputation' in self defense or combatives.
he didn't put in the work to provide a quality product. you know why? because the tried and tested escape techniques are what really work and there's no gimmick for him to push.
i haven't had the clavicle thing attempted. i had a guy trying to gouge at my eyes from within a triangle. i elbowed him at will and then booted him in his face. i didn't finish the choke because i was also trying to keep his gf from bashing my head in w/ a lawn chair.
fucking clavicle. priceless.
LOL @ it's bullshit but you can use the bullshit from a position of dominance. That's gold, Jerry. Gold!
Skpotamus -Missing Glove Tape - I'm also a fan of mma-based training programs such as ISR Matrix, MACP, and Southnarc's material. But ask any of them if there's not a difference in attitude and application between 'sport' and dangerous life/death situations that doesn't require adjustments in their training/teaching. The answer will undoubtedly be yes, and they'd be lying if they said otherwise. Hell, even the Army has made adjustments to the MACP program that includes a greater emphasis on standup training(ie: not getting drawn into protracted grappling contests), weapons retention and how to handle mass attack situations. Straight mma mindset, curriculum and rule sets taught/trained by 'experienced combat athletes' just doesn't cut it.
Ok, nobody is saying there's not a difference between a fight in a cage and a parking lot. What we're saying is that McCann's defenses are shit and won't work against anybody with a few months of training under their belt. You'd be better off learning how to grapple for real, and learn how to defend against the techniques with solid escapes that might actually work against someone who has a clue about grappling. Add in the other stuff (like the clavicle shit, eye gouges, bites, etc), but learn how to use them properly so they actually work and don't just piss of the guy choking the shit out of you.
"He's a virgin trying to tell a bunch of old whores how to screw."
Troll or LARPer?
Troll is my guess, who's well read on various ninja forums.
one of the biggest differences between mccann and the other two trainers you referenced, southnarc and paul sharp (isr) is that these guys actually train grappling and so can apply legit concepts and principles to their coursework.
having trained with southnarc, i can say it's an eye opening experience doing bjj with guns and fullspeed strikes to the dome while in a car. and a large part of why his ecqc shit makes so much sense is because he knows how to grapple. (btw, he does not advocate escaping the triangle by using dim mak.)
I too have trained briefly with Sharp and Southnarc. They're light years beyond what McCann demonstrates in that video.
sanchezero - i can say it's an eye opening experience doing bjj with guns and fullspeed strikes to the dome while in a car.
sanchezero - (btw, he does not advocate escaping the triangle by using dim mak.)
Missing Glove Tape - LOL @ it's bullshit but you can use the bullshit from a position of dominance. That's gold, Jerry. Gold!Skpotamus -Missing Glove Tape - I'm also a fan of mma-based training programs such as ISR Matrix, MACP, and Southnarc's material. But ask any of them if there's not a difference in attitude and application between 'sport' and dangerous life/death situations that doesn't require adjustments in their training/teaching. The answer will undoubtedly be yes, and they'd be lying if they said otherwise. Hell, even the Army has made adjustments to the MACP program that includes a greater emphasis on standup training(ie: not getting drawn into protracted grappling contests), weapons retention and how to handle mass attack situations. Straight mma mindset, curriculum and rule sets taught/trained by 'experienced combat athletes' just doesn't cut it.
Ok, nobody is saying there's not a difference between a fight in a cage and a parking lot. What we're saying is that McCann's defenses are shit and won't work against anybody with a few months of training under their belt. You'd be better off learning how to grapple for real, and learn how to defend against the techniques with solid escapes that might actually work against someone who has a clue about grappling. Add in the other stuff (like the clavicle shit, eye gouges, bites, etc), but learn how to use them properly so they actually work and don't just piss of the guy choking the shit out of you.
And nobody is saying a solid base isn't beneficial, either. Southnarc's PUC/ECQC stuff, especially the vehicle training, is truly innovative material drawn from the bjj training paradigm. Nevertheless there's a big difference in critiquing the presentation of anykind of material and calling it bullshit because it's not included in the latest grappling hero's instructionals, even though people in military and law enforcement circles are using it day to day to avoid/survive dangerous situations.
Anyway, here's the cop vs. boxer and kali tudo videos I mentioned before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX1Oer2EGu8
http://video.yandex.ru/users/san-da/view/5/
^Skip to ~33:30 for the open hand slap material.
Skpotamus - We're calling it bullshit because it is. It's not using solid fundamentals with extra nasty stuff thrown in to open people's eyes, it's flawed theories used against glawed techniques that won't work on a competent opponent, shown from a supposed expert that clearly is not that knowledge in this area.