Judo Scott - Sir Taps, combatives students have zero grappling awareness and they have a Brazilian jiu jitsu blue belt on their waist. Its a travesty IMO.
No offence Judo Scott, but unless you have the years of expirence the instructors who are doing the promoting, your opinion means shit. When I got my purple belt, there was moments of self doubt about my skills, but I had to defer to my instructor and his 20 plus years of bjj expirence. If he thinks I'm a purple belt, then I am a purple belt. The point is, I think the Gracie guys are more qualifed than me to say who is blue and so on. Also most people will never be above average at any belt level
Just because I am nothing but a brand spanking new and extremely unremarkable purple doesn't mean I can't have an opinion about something I am passionate about.
Perhaps when I get 20 plus years on the mat my perspective will change to theirs is but for now it is what it is.
The thing people forget is that a blue belt doesn't mean the same at the Gracie Academy as it does in most other places.
A blue belt there is the same as a white belt one stripe almost anywhere else - it means the absolute basics have been learnt.
I'm not giving them shit and I think Gracie Online University is by far the best video instruction and will eventually change BJJ when the entire course is on there.
It just is what it is. Of course a Gracie Combatives blue belt can't get close to matching a normal schools blue belt.
and to be honest with you...i don't think anybody needs to be wearing a blue belt that can't at the very least clinch and take someone down that is throwing punches without getting killed. i don't care how good they are on the mat.
I want to give out some props to the gracie combatives and purple belt belt program. I am a blue belt and have trained on and off for a few years. Both programs have helped me so much. It was this program that took my understanding to a higher level. The details are amazing.
The guys from my old gym are amazed, and I am surprised myself at how my skills have improved. I don't want to sound like I am boasting but they are a higher rank and I am slightly better than them on the mat where as before we were equal.
I know there are other variables that go into my improvement but I can't say enough about the videos from Torrance. I love them.
12 - That is when the words of my master, Royler Gracie, rung even more true. Royler always emphasized self-defense, and he used to say: "If you don't know how to escape from a head-lock, you are in trouble. What will you do if someone gets you in a head-lock on the streets? Yell out, 'hey I'm a Royler Gracie purple belt?' that’s not going to solve your problem!"
I think this supports Judo Scott's point. There is an expectation that comes with BJJ rank. If you can't escape a head-lock and you are a purple belt...something is very wrong.
Similarily, If someone has a blue belt, there is an expectation as to their knowledge and abilities. Isn't "Gracie Self Defense" BJJ? If not, then why are they wearing a "Gracie Self Defense" blue belt in a BJJ class if the expectations and skills are so different?
I was getting pretty disillusioned with Jiu-Jitsu as well. It seemed like more and more the things I were learning was to simple counter what another Jiu-Jitsu practitioner was doing.
I've always made it a point to attend the basics class in the hopes of learning the 'self-defense" aspect. Sometimes this would be taught and sometimes we would practice shooting which to this day I can't see why I would need to practice this as the last thing I want to do is fall on my knee.
I'm older and my back isn't what I would call a hundred percent healthy. So there are things I simply don't even try as I know it will hurt.
When the Gracie Combatives program came out I for the first time in years was excited about Jiu-Jitsu again. Here was exactly what I was looking for. Also what I want my sons to learn. A comprehensive self-defense program.
I could care less about the belt aspect of it. I have taught blue belts that did not have the headlock escapes down pat. They were strong, quick and clueless when it came to certain techniques. Hardly surprising considering the format of group classes. Your kind of out of luck if you miss the class on headlocks. In 14 years of jiu-jitsu I think I can count on one hand the number of times someone point me in a headlock. They were all whitebelts and very new. Rolling has lots of uses but practicing against an unskilled opponent needs to be drilled as well.
And give me a break when it comes to "real" criminal assaults involving multiple opponents and weapons. Get a frigging shotgun or tank then. If a hutu or tutsi militia come after me then I'm sure a lifetime of training dealing with "multiple" opponents isn't going to do jack for dealing with all those drug crazed machete wielding psychopaths.
After high school I think the odds of getting into an altercation goes seriously down. At least here in the US. I've never been bothered since high school and I've lived in some wilder areas in the US at times. A smile and and excuse me is the best martial art. (Stole that from GTR)
I wonder whats more real, a "sportive" blue belt or a "combatives" blue belt, from a historical perspective.
Wasn't it originally white, light blue, dark blue in the original Gracie academy? Light blue for assistant instructors or something like that. When did it change?
I got a kick out of a answer to a question put to my first instructor by a fellow student when I was training at JJM. JJ said always be concerned with the street applicability of a technique first before delving into sportive aspects. A great idea that wasn't always applied.
Don't get me wrong I like sport jiu-jitsu as much as the next BJJer but these are two different aspects of the art of BJJ we are talking about. I can see some aren't concerned about self-defense just as some aren't concerned about sport or self-defense, they just like no-gi. Some guys are fans of MMA only. Bully for them all.
The art will continue to divide into sub specialities and this will give us all topics to debate endlessly on the net. Sure beats watching American Idol.
truehonor - Kid's right. Your JJ is only as good as your ability to escape a common head lock, safely enter a clinch or even perform a takedown or two.
Because sport JJ players know how to do none of those?
not to offer a side to either part of the argument but to this comment- i know plenty of competition level bjj sport players who cant get to a clinch or perform a competent takedown. but they can pull guard and sweep/tap guys out. I wouldn't want to rely on that in the street.
I love the self-defense aspect of BJJ and was fortunate that my first BJJ teacher was highly proficient in it. With that said, I can't think of a hobby that is more fun than sport BJJ. Like most people, I was drawn to BJJ in order to learn how to protect myself. After awhile though, BJJ as a self-defense for me gave way to BJJ as a really fun hobby/sport for me. And it's the enjoyment of live sparring that's motivated me to train all these years. Nowadays, I'm not really concerned about learning how to protect myself in the streets because I know that self-defense situations are often unpredictable. I'd much rather train and have fun than prepare for something that may never happen, and if it does, it may happen in a way that I never prepared for. On a separate note, sport bjj and bjj self-defense are pretty much identical at their core. Their effectiveness is not so much based on their techniques, but rather the principles/concepts that underlie these techniques. For example, the angles, the leverage, the pressure, the posture, etc. Yeah, the techniques are good, but once you start to understand the concepts behind them and are able to apply these concepts in unique situations, that is when you enter a whole new level of understanding/mastery.
Train the GC's on your own and roll the sportive aspect at your school. Anyone good white or solid blue from a sportive-mostly based school will by far have an upperhand in understanding the details, feeeling the proper leverage, angles, etc, than someone with no mat time who's first experience is with the DVDs. This is a great compliment to either non-existant self-defense instruction at a school, or like soemone said earlier, the hit or miss situation of happening to be present on a day your instructer taught some self defense techniques .I would consider it a huge advantage to be a mostly sport bjj player and yet have the Gc's at your disposal. We are not talking apples and oranges here, but maybe a banana and a plantain. How can you go wrong?
in the very few times i had to fight for real, i didn't use bjj. i used wrestling mostly and strikes.
bjj will get you killed in the street. it's never one on one... you need to run, learn how to hit hard and fast, and how to stay on top or be able to get back up quick....
bjj is the art of bouncing. it's tailor made for security. for real life, i'd rather have solid boxing and wrestling.
Without bogging ourselves down with a discussion about the differences in mindset and strategy between a 'fight' and self-defense, you simply have to be able to function wherever the fight takes you. So, in that sense, I have never agreed with the idea that bjj, or any system of groundfighting, "will get me killed" due simply to the environment.
That said, I both understand and appreciate the concept of mobility in self-defense and agree completely that it is/should be one of the cornerstone's of a person's training(for purposes of self-defense, and secondary to awareness/descalation).
i always say it will get you killed in the street. it's my things.
i have used bjj one on one... when it was a melee outside a bar w/ 4 on 5 or so it was just smarter to use strikes and wrestling.
no joke, i tried to rnc a guy, he bumrushed me and we ended up on ground. i had triangle on pavement and was trying to a.silva him w/ elbows, ala silva x lutter. his gf is trying to hit me in the head w/ a patio chair. i did end up sweeping/scrambling to a half guard/almost mount and threw a few strikes. he turned as if he didn't want it anymore so i bailed/ran away w/ my friend.
we were attacked because we were standing near some guys that the others had beef with. we didn't even know them.
so i did use bjj to control someone and sweep, but i think it was more of a scramble that i won.
in the very few times i had to fight for real, i didn't use bjj. i used wrestling mostly and strikes.
bjj will get you killed in the street. it's never one on one... you need to run, learn how to hit hard and fast, and how to stay on top or be able to get back up quick....
bjj is the art of bouncing. it's tailor made for security. for real life, i'd rather have solid boxing and wrestling.
bjj is fun.
That's very untrue. I've done Bjj for a decade. I've used it, had training partners use it, as well as students.
I've had 3 friends pull guard and immediately break the other guys arm. Done. Two of the three friends immediately contacted the police and stated what happened in self defense and that was that. The third happened outside a bar and nothing was reported.
Bjj is the best for self defense.
this happen w/ multiple assailants or a scuffle between two guys?
i will never go to my back in a fight. that's crazy.
in the very few times i had to fight for real, i didn't use bjj. i used wrestling mostly and strikes.
bjj will get you killed in the street. it's never one on one... you need to run, learn how to hit hard and fast, and how to stay on top or be able to get back up quick....
bjj is the art of bouncing. it's tailor made for security. for real life, i'd rather have solid boxing and wrestling.
bjj is fun.
That's very untrue. I've done Bjj for a decade. I've used it, had training partners use it, as well as students.
I've had 3 friends pull guard and immediately break the other guys arm. Done. Two of the three friends immediately contacted the police and stated what happened in self defense and that was that. The third happened outside a bar and nothing was reported.
Bjj is the best for self defense.
Obviously untrue. Your friends would have been instantly killed by the broken glass and lava on the ground.
this happen w/ multiple assailants or a scuffle between two guys?
i will never go to my back in a fight. that's crazy.
You don't always have a choice in the matter. Ever been taken down in a fight? Dropped by a strike? Or simply lose your balance?
As I said before, you have to be able to function wherever the fight takes you. If that means fighting off your back, so be it. Doesn't mean mobility isn't as important or applicable on the ground as it is standing, though. As much as systema is considered a joke, some of their practitioners have a pretty good grasp of groundwork as it applies to mass attacks. Zero1 knows what I'm talking about. Maybe he'll weigh in and share some footage.
in the very few times i had to fight for real, i didn't use bjj. i used wrestling mostly and strikes.
bjj will get you killed in the street. it's never one on one... you need to run, learn how to hit hard and fast, and how to stay on top or be able to get back up quick....
bjj is the art of bouncing. it's tailor made for security. for real life, i'd rather have solid boxing and wrestling.
bjj is fun.
That's very untrue. I've done Bjj for a decade. I've used it, had training partners use it, as well as students.
I've had 3 friends pull guard and immediately break the other guys arm. Done. Two of the three friends immediately contacted the police and stated what happened in self defense and that was that. The third happened outside a bar and nothing was reported.
Bjj is the best for self defense.
hmmmmmmmm. you have 3 different friends who have all pulled guard and broken someones arm in a street fight?
I have been immersed in the BJJ/Judo community for 13 years and can't say that I know one person who has done that.
i was taken down in a scramble. bum rushed while trying to rnc a guy. i ended up triangling him and elbowing from there. kicked off and got to feet then on top after his gf tried stomping me w/ a lawn chair while i was on my back.
it was multiple assailants. i had to be mobile and hit and run.
if it's one on one, i have no problem controlling someone from side mount until cops get there.