Kron speaks against Gracie University

TL;DR version: Kron speaks against the selling of belts by Gracie University, and specifically mentions Ryron and Rener. Most people probably won't care considering Renzo and Royce already spoke against the practice, but the more the merrier, imo.

It is more than a bit disingenuous to compare a guy selling DVD's for techniques and nothing else to a guy selling a promotion to the next rank based entirely on distance learning. But sure, they are market leading, whatever that means in this context.

I think the one thing online training lacks is feedback. As someone who has trained for 6 years, I cannot even begin to count the number of times my instructor shows a move and I practice it wrong. The move could still "work" but I am not doing it correctly. Without the immediate feedback from my instructor, I have now learned the move incorrectly. I will also likely be practicing the move incorrectly in training.

jiu jitsu never was and still isnt about learning all the techniques per se - or even learning many of them.  What I mean by this is that in your journey, you learn thousands of techniques, but you either drop or add them into your personal library based on your physicality, your mentality, your strategy and mindset...basically who you are will lead to how your game develops.  The other important part of this is that you are doing trial and error all the time against resisting opponents in sparring, opponents who are big small fat skinny etc...

This is how you develop muscle memory.  This is how you become good at jiu jitsu and familiar with the techniques.  Im sorry but Ive said it before - programs like GU are good if you are in the middle of nowhere and like jiu jitsu but it is no substitute for getting to a real live academy and putting in the time on the mat with your training partners.  It just isnt the same no matter how you slice it. 

I dont think anyone is making the comparison with GU vs a bad academy.  The context is real bjj at a real bjj academy.  There is no substitute for that. 

I think if you are giving out belts online you are exactly making that claim (equivelency between GU and a live academy)

Can someone please correct me on this: my understanding is that if you go to the Academy in person, the criteria for blue belt is simply attendance-based? In other words, you attend each lesson... the same lessons taught in the videos... either 2x or 3x... and once your card is full, you are belted, no test?

My point is that IF the point above is accurate, it's more valuable to compare GA's in-person criteria for blue vs. the video criteria. Kron may take an issue with belting solely based on attendance too.

you get tested

its the same,seems like the online guys do more work

this is a subject that comes up a lot in my area, with different schools having different systems in place for belt promotions.

my opinion - both attendance-based and online/distance learning curriculums for earning belts in brazilian jiu-jitsu are terrible, terrible means for delineating levels of skill and understanding between practitioners. this may sound overdramatic, but things like this make me worry for the future of bjj.

whenever a martial art rushes to meet a modern capitalist business model and retain students through easy promotions, the effectiveness and standards of the art seem to diminish quite a lot. (look at the current state of TKD and karate in america after decades of easy promotions, black belts for children, and overall loose standards for "proficiency".)

meanwhile in bjj, its hitherto been practically impossible to fake the proficiency of a good purple belt, and pretenders are quickly found out to be just that, bullshitters. thats one of the very things i love most about jiu-jitsu. i understand that some people don't have the luxury of a good brown or black belt to teach them early on, but i still hold fast to the notion that dispensing out ranks that aren't earned through the merit of time on the mat is a bad idea for the long term quality of the art.

well said ^ 

The real LOL here is OP talking tough while this guy was in there fighting with bones in his face being re-arranged 


Fucking pussy OP

back in 1998 thats all we had is tapes to learn from unless you flew across the world.
I remember training in a basement or living room with a VCR and Royce 1st tapes set basic,inter,advanced.
Later people became tape junky's purchase and exchanging to learn new stuff from different instructors.

-Mario Sperry gi,nogi,and vale tudo was a hit
-Erik Paulson
-Renzo tapes
-Mark Kerr
-Ralph series
-Tony Ceccine catch wrestling

There was a lot more such as the pathers Videos and for web training it was websites with pictures of techniques or grappling presents.

Most people only had Judo or wrestling programs so thats where everybody did there sparring in those days if you were not training in the basement ,lawns,living rooms.

It was such a different world back then and people are just so lucky today.

I'd say just do it all mginaction,gracie university, 10th planets web stuff,Go Train at a real club even if it's not bjj go to judo or wrestling ,sambo ,and what ever you can get your hands on learn whats useful for your body type.

If your having fun keep doing it!

checkuroil - The difference between a DVD and the Gracie university is that the DVD is a supplement to your curriculum: the university is a total replacement. It's like comparing a vitamin to a meal.

Being in a gym teaches you infinitely more. I pick up so many details from rolling with high level guys. They do not even have to tell me what they are doing. Feeling their game opens up my mind. My rolls with world champions and top flight guys has put my bjj in new perspectives that allow me to grow immensely. People studying online miss out on all of that from the beginning.

Think of how many small pointers about your game you get from the higher ranked guys that improve your game by leaps and bounds. That's out the window with Gracie university.

Why not just use the university as a supplement the way other websites do, like mg online? The belt just encourages people to avoid finding in person teachers Phone Post 3.0

Good post

Question for you, how do you feel about purple and sometimes blue belts running 10th planet school's where the only instruction they seem to have is MTS? I have seen you post in the past about making a trip to HQ mandatory once a year for quality control reasons

Also, for everyone in general, should purple belts be running schools if higher belts are in the area?

That is a land mine of a question for me.
I have never been nor will I ever be in a position that Eddie is in. I am not the innovator that he is. I have never won the championship that he's won. I will never have the number of students that he has. He has obstacles that I can't even begin to understand. He also has a family to feed with his jujitsu and I do not. I have another job.

I will say how I would run my affiliation program but it's all hypothetical.

The only guys who would be allowed to open up an affiliation under me would be guys who trained directly under me. So in the case of Eddie, it would be only the headquarter black and brown belts who would be allowed to have an affiliation.
But that would not allow for the growth of the system either. I would be poor and probably fail.

And nothing says that the way that I would do it would be better. In fact many of his moons have had great success following a system that looks nothing like the way I would set mine up. I just have a certain preference and Eddie has a different type of preference. But I am playing armchair quarterback throughout this because I don't even have a school. Phone Post 3.0

In Phone Post 3.0

IMO, if you and a buddy get some mats in your garage, and study Gracie University lessons everyday, and also roll, you guys would get freaking good. Combine that with a trip to the academy a couple times a year (assuming there is no academy within convenient driving distance), and you would be set. Obviously, if you're Kron Gracie, the way you look at BJJ, training with anything less than the intensity of a world championship level camp is very undesirable. However, it is important that we realize that the only way to grow BJJ is by appealing to the casuals, and I think Gracie University does just that, making it great for Jiu Jitsu.

12 - thanks for the clarification.

PrisonMattressPuncher - 
Spc Lee Lohff - It is more than a bit disingenuous to compare a guy selling DVD's for techniques and nothing else to a guy selling a promotion to the next rank based entirely on distance learning. But sure, they are market leading, whatever that means in this context.

So why would anyone put videos out if they truly feel that:
1) one cannot truly learn correctly from them
2) Enhance performance through learned techniques?

Wouldn't that be dishonest?

Further all these instructors who 'correct' techniques, for the most part, are wrong (in the idea that the move is being done wrong). It is usually that the instructor doesn't know the technique,. and/or has his own way of doing it. I cannot count the number of times that I've heard an instructor on DVD claim a particular way is 'wrong' and his method is the right way. If the basic concepts and mechanics are present, then it is right.

Now, the Gracie Boys DO NOT say NOT to go train at a BJJ school if one is around. In fact, they recommend it.

But let's face it. Their curriculum (at least for blue belt, including stripes) is miles ahead of others, in terms of drilling, technique demonstration and explanation, progressive movement drills, structure, organization, and the reality is it is WAY HARDER to get the Gracie blue stripes through video than any blue belt I have ever seen. Hundreds, upon hundreds of hours must be dedicated to training. You cannot hide your weaknesses in movement, and technique - they will see it.

I've been taught by black belts. Years ago, I attended classes of a world champion. The level of 'feedback' to correct things, and level of hands-on assessment, was almost zero. Again it happened at another club. GU is miles ahead of 3 clubs I attended - at least for foundation techniques.

And LOL @ Royce Gracie. Probably the WORST instruction I EVER received in any martial art anywhere was from Royce.

I agree as well, right now I am using GU because their is no bjj in a 100 mile radius. So me and a couple of friends are using this to keep practicing and getting in shape by no means am I planning to be a Mundials Champion. I am a Blue Belt through another association. But the level of instruction in GU is very good IMO.

As far as I know. Kron has never trained online --which we have all recently learned is BETTER than in person training-- so I'd say his opinion on BJJ matters is somewhat suspect.

Well, I think they're done with awarding online belts, which I am glad they buckled under the scrutiny. I think what Kron said was that he was not willing to share so much of his knowledge so publicly, at least that what he said on a Joe Hogan' s podcast.. I earned my brown a couple of years ago the old fashion way and I got a pretty good foundation in Gracie SD, since my first instructor was certified at one time and was basically teaching the combatives integrated with sportive techniques from around 98 or so. I maintain my training at my school, but I work the combatives system at home with a neighbor who has dabbled in BJJ for a few years now. Since we started this linear progressive system this dude has never been happier to train. He rolls at about a solid three stripe or four stripe white and can't believe the conceptual understanding he is gaining. He says so many questions have already been answered and we are not yet half way through. I would say it works exceptionally well for him -and myself- BECAUSE we have ample experience in a traditional setting; so we know what a continuum of attack/defense feels like. Rener and Ryron have stated that using their system as a compliment to a regular school can have the ability to provide the best of both worlds, and I wholeheartedly agree. Again, I am really glad they dumped the inline belt awarding though.