There was a gracie breakdown of this exact issue. People who don't go to a gracie university affiliate for their test will receive a "technical belt." Here's the video, they talk about it towards the end at the 22:00 mark.
i dont get the hate on GU. it gets ppl into the sport. who else is doing a better job at exposing bjj to a non-core audience?
nobody is arguing that online is better than training in person. not everybody has the time to commit to a gym, convenience of location, or money.
the vids got me interested enough to join a local gym. i'm trying to get my brother to try the bulleyproof series for his kid that is getting picked on at school.
shen -Kron was an early promoter of the BJJ correspondence course by carrier pigeon and later by telegram and even on occasion, messenger delivered papyrus.As far as I know. Kron has never trained online --which we have all recently learned is BETTER than in person training-- so I'd say his opinion on BJJ matters is somewhat suspect.
Shen may also remember an attempt by Rickson to do gradings via semaphore was met with limited success (Shen took the basic premise and implemented the now defunct Shendokan smoke signal introduction course).
So I suspect Kron's distaste with the GU program is more to do with his abhorrence of digital delivery channels.
checkuroil - That is a land mine of a question for me.
I have never been nor will I ever be in a position that Eddie is in. I am not the innovator that he is. I have never won the championship that he's won. I will never have the number of students that he has. He has obstacles that I can't even begin to understand. He also has a family to feed with his jujitsu and I do not. I have another job.
I will say how I would run my affiliation program but it's all hypothetical.
The only guys who would be allowed to open up an affiliation under me would be guys who trained directly under me. So in the case of Eddie, it would be only the headquarter black and brown belts who would be allowed to have an affiliation.
But that would not allow for the growth of the system either. I would be poor and probably fail.
And nothing says that the way that I would do it would be better. In fact many of his moons have had great success following a system that looks nothing like the way I would set mine up. I just have a certain preference and Eddie has a different type of preference. But I am playing armchair quarterback throughout this because I don't even have a school.
Thanks for answering, wasn't trying to set you up, just like to hear your thoughts on stuff like that because have heard some stuff you have said in the past
Thanks
Hargreaves - back in 1998 thats all we had is tapes to learn from unless you flew across the world.I'm from this kind of world too. Back then the highest belt in the vicinity, if you were lucky, was a blue belt.
I remember training in a basement or living room with a VCR and Royce 1st tapes set basic,inter,advanced.
Later people became tape junky's purchase and exchanging to learn new stuff from different instructors.
-Mario Sperry gi,nogi,and vale tudo was a hit
-Erik Paulson
-Renzo tapes
-Mark Kerr
-Oleg
-Ralph series
-Tony Ceccine catch wrestling
There was a lot more such as the pathers Videos and for web training it was websites with pictures of techniques or grappling presents.
Most people only had Judo or wrestling programs so thats where everybody did there sparring in those days if you were not training in the basement ,lawns,living rooms.
It was such a different world back then and people are just so lucky today.
I'd say just do it all mginaction,gracie university, 10th planets web stuff,Go Train at a real club even if it's not bjj go to judo or wrestling ,sambo ,and what ever you can get your hands on learn whats useful for your body type.
If your having fun keep doing it!
The crazy thing today, is you have online egomaniac blue belt clowns opening up CTA's right next door to schools run by black belts, good black belts with actual MMA experience. Its unacceptable and bewildering.
UGCTT_Fillthy - Regarding blue/purple belts teaching classes, I don't see what difference it makes, although I'm obviously biased. I've taken classes with guys who can roll me up and tie me in a bow, but trying to learn from them is like looking for a diamond in a goat's ass.
I also know really great teachers who are never going to win Mundials or even place at the local NAGA. If you're a purple/brown belt who's looking to bedazzle your neck with medals, you're on a different path than the 40yo accountant who wants to learn self-defense that doesn't require athleticism, or the 10yo kid who's tired of getting picked on by the big kids at school.
There's a very narrow band of practitioners who NEED daily guidance from a high belt, most just need a good teacher and a positive learning environment. I think I have a good relationship with all the 'black belt led' schools in our area, and I'm quick to recommend students to those schools if their goals surpass my ability to teach.
It's not even guidance for most, if you like rolling around with your buddies or whatever that's cool, but if you want to roll with good guys it is just a different level like cuo was saying earlier, just rolling with someone better than you or on a different level ups your game
Rolling with a black belt a lot, or browns, whatever, just guys that are better than you consistently is huge IMO
I thought GU stopped awarding actual blue belts and stripes and now they are "technical belts" untill verified in person at a Seminar. That is not much different from how other black belts do promotions to affiliate students.
BandakaKush - I thought GU stopped awarding actual blue belts and stripes and now they are "technical belts" untill verified in person at a Seminar. That is not much different from how other black belts do promotions to affiliate students.
That's how I know affiliates to work.
BandakaKush - I thought GU stopped awarding actual blue belts and stripes and now they are "technical belts" untill verified in person at a Seminar. That is not much different from how other black belts do promotions to affiliate students.They did but you can still get a "real" blue belt at a CTC (certified training center). In my town that means the aikido instructor who has a blue belt in BJJ is now churning out "real" Gracie blue belts. These blue belts roll at the level of a one stripe white when they visit the real BJJ schools in the area. I still think this situation is bogus.
12 - its the same,seems like the online guys do more work
There are high school classes where the kids do tons of busywork and have hours more homework. Heck I see it here in AZ with grade school kids and their amount of "work". Yet AZ schools consistently fall far below the national average. Although the AZ school kids might do more "work" than their Chicago suburban or NE US counterparts, they manage to turn out an inferior student at the end of the process.
Another example...
I do some of my S&C at a Gold's gym. Every night I see a few guys putting in hours on the heavy bag. I'm sure they watch videos, they give each other tips, and they put in more "work" than lots of other boxers. Unfortunately they all seem to suck compared to guys with half the time learning boxing from the couple of legit gyms in the same area.
I think their content is very very good. I don't think it should be your only source of training but I think it's an excellent supplement to someone who already trains
Stymie -BandakaKush - I thought GU stopped awarding actual blue belts and stripes and now they are "technical belts" untill verified in person at a Seminar. That is not much different from how other black belts do promotions to affiliate students.They did but you can still get a "real" blue belt at a CTC (certified training center). In my town that means the aikido instructor who has a blue belt in BJJ is now churning out "real" Gracie blue belts. These blue belts roll at the level of a one stripe white when they visit the real BJJ schools in the area. I still think this situation is bogus.
Well without a wifi connection how do expect them to perform? Get with the times man!
PrisonMattressPuncher -Just reporting local events. Call bs all you like.Stymie -BandakaKush - I thought GU stopped awarding actual blue belts and stripes and now they are "technical belts" untill verified in person at a Seminar. That is not much different from how other black belts do promotions to affiliate students.They did but you can still get a "real" blue belt at a CTC (certified training center). In my town that means the aikido instructor who has a blue belt in BJJ is now churning out "real" Gracie blue belts. These blue belts roll at the level of a one stripe white when they visit the real BJJ schools in the area. I still think this situation is bogus.
I'm calling BS. Why? Because you are talking about combative blue belts. I have seen stripers and they are pretty good and VERY technically sound.
A CTC is hard endeavor, and just because someone has studied Aikido does not mean he s not effective as a BJJ instructor. I have seen MANY colored belt association schools run by blue belts, etc. Most are about the same.
Kron is right. Everyone should get a dad to give 20 years of free lessons with your own academy thrown in at the end.
cm81 -Hargreaves - back in 1998 thats all we had is tapes to learn from unless you flew across the world.I'm from this kind of world too. Back then the highest belt in the vicinity, if you were lucky, was a blue belt.
I remember training in a basement or living room with a VCR and Royce 1st tapes set basic,inter,advanced.
Later people became tape junky's purchase and exchanging to learn new stuff from different instructors.
-Mario Sperry gi,nogi,and vale tudo was a hit
-Erik Paulson
-Renzo tapes
-Mark Kerr
-Oleg
-Ralph series
-Tony Ceccine catch wrestling
There was a lot more such as the pathers Videos and for web training it was websites with pictures of techniques or grappling presents.
Most people only had Judo or wrestling programs so thats where everybody did there sparring in those days if you were not training in the basement ,lawns,living rooms.
It was such a different world back then and people are just so lucky today.
I'd say just do it all mginaction,gracie university, 10th planets web stuff,Go Train at a real club even if it's not bjj go to judo or wrestling ,sambo ,and what ever you can get your hands on learn whats useful for your body type.
If your having fun keep doing it!
The crazy thing today, is you have online egomaniac blue belt clowns opening up CTA's right next door to schools run by black belts, good black belts with actual MMA experience. Its unacceptable and bewildering.
i dont think any online blue has a ctc,all the instructors come out 2 times a year for live instruction.
so whats wrong with a blue belt teaching white belts? why would it matter who's next door?.they only teach like 36 moves or something ,if anything it should bring more customers for the bb next door.
you guys should be happy these guys move into the area.with your superior teaching and friendly training environment you offer. the ctc is no more then a commercial for the you guys
That was 1998 but around 2000 we did find a club but it was 100% MMA but the highest BJJER at that time was a blue belt who later made it to UFC.. our whole team fought fights and some moved on to Pride ,strike force ,and tuf.
Everybody moved on to train full time at Big name MMA /BJJ schools now and some are just becoming famous now but it's amazing how far the journey is and it really never ends.
"Yep. I think this is because they don't want to endure the hard work of getting handled on the mat to move up through the ranks. The problem is they are under the impression that BJJ is effective because of techniques, but it isn't. What makes any art effective is constant resistance training. I don't see how they are getting that nor do I see why a person would choose online training instead of working with the black belt right down the road. "
Exactly. Not only resistence training, but doing it against dozens of different opponent when you train. All belt levels, all body types, all mentalities and physicalities. This is what makes you good at jiu jitsu - your ability to handle much larger opponents or to survive against much better ones. There is just no substitute for this. When you train with the same one or two or three people all the time, you fall into routines with your game. When you roll without the supervision (daily) of a qualified instructor, you develop bad habits that will linger with you because they are not being corrected. You dont get better like you would in a real BJJ program.
UGCTT_Fillthy -I did name names. Gracie University. My problem is with their program, not the local aikido guy. I can't fault him for trying to make a buck. He's actually a very nice guy. I just don't think he should be churning out blue belts. GU empowered him to do so.Stymie -PrisonMattressPuncher -Just reporting local events. Call bs all you like.Stymie -BandakaKush - I thought GU stopped awarding actual blue belts and stripes and now they are "technical belts" untill verified in person at a Seminar. That is not much different from how other black belts do promotions to affiliate students.They did but you can still get a "real" blue belt at a CTC (certified training center). In my town that means the aikido instructor who has a blue belt in BJJ is now churning out "real" Gracie blue belts. These blue belts roll at the level of a one stripe white when they visit the real BJJ schools in the area. I still think this situation is bogus.
I'm calling BS. Why? Because you are talking about combative blue belts. I have seen stripers and they are pretty good and VERY technically sound.
A CTC is hard endeavor, and just because someone has studied Aikido does not mean he s not effective as a BJJ instructor. I have seen MANY colored belt association schools run by blue belts, etc. Most are about the same.
Name names.
Filthy is correct about it being a great commercial. Other local academies are picking up a lot of these guys when they leave the CTC to see what else is out there.
I haven't read every reply on this thread but this is my 2 cents on the subject. If anyone has ever seen a GU blue belt compete in a tournament. You would understand why GU should not be issuing rank online. I've seen a handful of GU blue belts competing in local tournaments and they get murdered! I doubt they would of even won a match in the white belt division if they were allowed to drop down a division.
swiftnhbfighter - I haven't read every reply on this thread but this is my 2 cents on the subject. If anyone has ever seen a GU blue belt compete in a tournament. You would understand why GU should not be issuing rank online. I've seen a handful of GU blue belts competing in local tournaments and they get murdered! I doubt they would of even won a match in the white belt division if they were allowed to drop down a division.
No GU student should fool themselves believing they can walk out of a Gracie Garage and on to a tournament mat without any real gym experience. Everything in the initial course that is taught is predicated on minimizing the opportunity to get punched in the cabeza and other scenarios where the techniques are all about head and arm control- something that at times is not a concern in a tournament (mount escape, certain sweeps, etc.). The Overall concepts transfer over to each other, but a GU student vs. tournament focused school student should understand the distinction of what and why they are practicing in the manner that they do. I really enjoy the GU techniques, but hardcore rolling makes the senses come alive.