BandakaKush - I thought GU stopped awarding actual blue belts and stripes and now they are "technical belts" untill verified in person at a Seminar. That is not much different from how other black belts do promotions to affiliate students.
They did but you can still get a "real" blue belt at a CTC (certified training center). In my town that means the aikido instructor who has a blue belt in BJJ is now churning out "real" Gracie blue belts. These blue belts roll at the level of a one stripe white when they visit the real BJJ schools in the area. I still think this situation is bogus.
I'm calling BS. Why? Because you are talking about combative blue belts. I have seen stripers and they are pretty good and VERY technically sound. A CTC is hard endeavor, and just because someone has studied Aikido does not mean he s not effective as a BJJ instructor. I have seen MANY colored belt association schools run by blue belts, etc. Most are about the same.
Just reporting local events. Call bs all you like.
Name names.
I did name names. Gracie University. My problem is with their program, not the local aikido guy. I can't fault him for trying to make a buck. He's actually a very nice guy. I just don't think he should be churning out blue belts. GU empowered him to do so. Filthy is correct about it being a great commercial. Other local academies are picking up a lot of these guys when they leave the CTC to see what else is out there.
this is why everyone is calling BS - because you won't name the guy who's an example of how crappy GU CTCs are, yet you hold him up as 'proof' that GU peddling garbage.
pathetic.
You're absolutely correct. The instruction the CTC offers from a blue belt is equal or superior to what is offered by the academy run by a legit black belt down the street. lol You don't seem to grasp that my issue is with the GU program, not the guy trying to make a buck off of it. BTW, nobody from this area has called BS.
Which scenario do you think your average BJJ practitioner is likely to encounter? A street fight scenario(which if one really is honest, there is no scenario accurate enough to train for) or a sport scenario?
I think its strange how many people put "street defense" on a pedestal, given how vague and ambiguous such a thing is, and really, what percentage its likely to happen.
GU uses great marketing and buzzwords to sell you the confidence of someone rolling hardcore qualified instructors and practitioners with resistance without the real results of doing so.
The end product are individuals who feel confident in there street defense(something they will more than likely not need to use)which is a silly notion in and of itself and they get a "technical blue belt"(WTF?) without truly getting the growth that comes from stepping outside your comfort zone(leaving your house) and challenging your character, ego, and limits.
swiftnhbfighter - I haven't read every reply on this thread but this is my 2 cents on the subject. If anyone has ever seen a GU blue belt compete in a tournament. You would understand why GU should not be issuing rank online. I've seen a handful of GU blue belts competing in local tournaments and they get murdered! I doubt they would of even won a match in the white belt division if they were allowed to drop down a division.
Im not a supporter of GU really but to be honest, why should a traditional GJJ person care about tournaments? modern BJJ tournaments for the most are about point scoring and playing the tournament game. I maintain that to get a proper BJJ education you need to be inside an Academy under the supervision of a high rank, but not too many traditionalists care about modern day tournaments and their rules.
"hardcore rolling for GU students starts after they've mastered the street fight scenario."
you cant master any streetfight scenario without live energy situations and developing muscle memory with a variety of opponents from a variety of levels. To me this means rolling. Ive taken and studied the combative self defense program at The Gracie Academy and I can tell you without question, I did not feel like I mastered anything, nor was I confident in my abilities to handle most situations until I reached mid level purple belt.
"hardcore rolling for GU students starts after they've mastered the street fight scenario."
you cant master any streetfight scenario without live energy situations and developing muscle memory with a variety of opponents from a variety of levels. To me this means rolling. Ive taken and studied the combative self defense program at The Gracie Academy and I can tell you without question, I did not feel like I mastered anything, nor was I confident in my abilities to handle most situations until I reached mid level purple belt.
I would think mastering GU Combatives, then venturing out and doing a boatload of rolling will prepare a person. I don't know, I'm just really in to the holistic approach of integrating both training models in to my life. At this point I have so many years on the mat that it DOES make revisiting Gracie Self defense and implementing the system into my overall jiujitsu approach SO MUCH EASIER simply because you can feel when a technique is properly applied vs hoping that you got it right. Plus I have human resources I can consult with. **** by the way**** didn't someone post several videos of a GU only student sweeping a blue belt contingent at a sizeable tournament about a month ago? I'm sure though that guy rolled a lot before signing up for the tourney though.
If your main focus to get the blue belt is defending against punches and not guard passes, of course you will be disadvantaged in a blue belt tournament division. It's a red herring. Not that the evaluation process argument isn't without some merit. But if you ask a sport blue belt to defend punches from the bottom of guard without knowing the punch block series taught in GC, it is much easier to hit them.
I doubt it would be that easy, given they know how to disrupt balance, clinch, and sweep. Its not as if those who have no done GC will forget basics, nor will they simply lay there with someone in there guard. Its hard to punch someone who is actively grabbing you, attempting to sweep, and fighting back regardless.
In fact, given that they are doing it against people who do know BJJ and are putting up heavy resistance, they will have an easier time submitting/sweeping/manipulating someone with no training in BJJ, regardless of size, or athleticism.
" If most people who do the GU curriculum don't share your experience, where do you think the shortcomings of the GU approach lie?
Is it just the sparring?"
I dont know. I cant speak to the GU approach. I got off my arse in the 1990s and flew from Eastern Canada to Western US over 25 times to take privates and classes at the gracie academy, so I can only speak to my approach. I guess it was inferior to sitting on my computer and learning jiu jitsu :(
GU guys claim that they are good enough to win tournaments. But when people who rolled against them testify to the lack of skills of the GU students, the GU students suddenly switch to "Gracie Combatives is to prepare you for real street self defense situations against untrained opponents! Of course they lose against regular BJJ blue belts. They don't train for tournaments. They train for da streetz!"
It's the classical mystical martial arts bullshido marketing program. All you need to do is practice these sets of moves on a light-to-non resisting partner and send us a video. Then we'll mail you your "technical" blue belt! Anyone dismiss our program after trying it? Well, it's obviously because THEY suck. It's not our mailing blue belts that's the problem!
I'd like to take a moment to address this constant scenario of "the untrained attacker" I keep reading about. In my experience, no one goes into a fight thinking they are going to lose. Meaning almost by definition your "attacker" thinks he is going to win because he is huge, or trained, or armed, or has buddies with him, etc.
For instance, Is the GU student going to be able to handle the 200 pound former 4 year high school wrestler who's a bit out of shape now at 23 but has been in 3 or 4 bar fights this year and tranes a little UFC in his garage with his buddies?
This is probably more likely a common "street fight scenario" than the phantom one people are preparing for. Regular grown up just don't get into street fights.
At least in a real academy and yes even in "sport tourneys" you've generally encountered the new guy/giant wrestler spazz and have some experience dealing with that energy in a controlled environment. I personally think all the GU guys training for SD would be in for a rude awakening if ever called upon to test their "SD skills".
And yes, I'll say it... "wouldn't handle it as well as a sport guy would."
Seems that intense sparring is up to the individual GU groups. R&R recommend strongly that intensity increase as muscle memory increases and they prescribe various ways to mix up the attacks in stages of progression, encouraging the partners try and surprise each other while attacking. The most glaring theme in GU is it's all about not getting rocked by someone's strikes. Distance; close or far and head and arm control is in everything that I have seen so far. They talk about the enjoyment and benefits of free rolling, but knowing where that "street switch" would apply. They also state very emphatically that if one (asides from self defense) aspire to enter the MMA, then that is the gateway and foundation they will need. They make no mention that GU/ Combatives are the way to train for a BJJ tournament. The error in confidence would lie in the student in such a case.
BandakaKush - I thought GU stopped awarding actual blue belts and stripes and now they are "technical belts" untill verified in person at a Seminar. That is not much different from how other black belts do promotions to affiliate students.
They did but you can still get a "real" blue belt at a CTC (certified training center). In my town that means the aikido instructor who has a blue belt in BJJ is now churning out "real" Gracie blue belts. These blue belts roll at the level of a one stripe white when they visit the real BJJ schools in the area. I still think this situation is bogus.
I'm calling BS. Why? Because you are talking about combative blue belts. I have seen stripers and they are pretty good and VERY technically sound. A CTC is hard endeavor, and just because someone has studied Aikido does not mean he s not effective as a BJJ instructor. I have seen MANY colored belt association schools run by blue belts, etc. Most are about the same.
Just reporting local events. Call bs all you like.
Name names.
I did name names. Gracie University. My problem is with their program, not the local aikido guy. I can't fault him for trying to make a buck. He's actually a very nice guy. I just don't think he should be churning out blue belts. GU empowered him to do so. Filthy is correct about it being a great commercial. Other local academies are picking up a lot of these guys when they leave the CTC to see what else is out there.
this is why everyone is calling BS - because you won't name the guy who's an example of how crappy GU CTCs are, yet you hold him up as 'proof' that GU peddling garbage.
pathetic.
You're absolutely correct. The instruction the CTC offers from a blue belt is equal or superior to what is offered by the academy run by a legit black belt down the street. lol You don't seem to grasp that my issue is with the GU program, not the guy trying to make a buck off of it. BTW, nobody from this area has called BS.
The instructor he speaks of joined up with GU after being denied an affiliation through out instructor's instructor.
To be honest our instructor doesn't even have an "affiliation" through him. He got his purple belt from him and then moved a few states away. This is when I started training with him and there was not an instructor within a couple of hours. He went back multiple times each year and trained with him, as well as having him come in for seminars at least once a year until he earned his black belt (around 13 years total). The first times we him come in was at the aikido instructors school because our location was not big enough. We aren't naming names because we don't want to get a shit storm started.
I will tell you this: The instructor he asked for an affiliation through is a black belt under Helio, and his last name is not Gracie. He is considered to be one of the foremost authorities on the Gracie SD curriculum (which we practice everyday btw) so the argument about not training combatives or self defense or for the street or whatever happens to be the in term this week holds no water. In fact, he probably had an easier time than most getting a CTC because of who he got his blue belt from and his grasp of the SD curriculum that he learned from a qualified instructor. I think he trained with us for around 3 years or so? If it wasn't for GU enabling this guy, he would still be training with us. There is no bad feelings toward him, he just didn't do it the right way. Most people on this forum would agree that asking for an affiliation after meeting a guy two or three times and earning your blue belt isn't such a good idea.
one of my instructors (from the academy instructor program) got his purple from helio. He was just at my school teaching seminars last weekend and told me himself
