jiu jitsu never was and still isnt about learning all the techniques per se - or even learning many of them. What I mean by this is that in your journey, you learn thousands of techniques, but you either drop or add them into your personal library based on your physicality, your mentality, your strategy and mindset...basically who you are will lead to how your game develops. The other important part of this is that you are doing trial and error all the time against resisting opponents in sparring, opponents who are big small fat skinny etc...
This is how you develop muscle memory. This is how you become good at jiu jitsu and familiar with the techniques. Im sorry but Ive said it before - programs like GU are good if you are in the middle of nowhere and like jiu jitsu but it is no substitute for getting to a real live academy and putting in the time on the mat with your training partners. It just isnt the same no matter how you slice it.
" Hey m.g, I hear what you are saying. I know Ryron and Rener are really excellent teachers and GA is really good at putting together a curriculum. Honestly, I still feel they have the best fundamentals program from brand new practitioners. I started there many years ago, so I understand that. That all said, I'm still not sure what the best way to learn this art is... I really don't think it should be too academic, too curriculum or syllabus oriented. I know some people really like to learn that way, but I'm not convinced that gets you "there". While we all want to think of learning academically, there is that "X" factor.... I personally feel there is a balance.... you definitely roll and compete better by being in a place that rolls and competes a lot. Just that hard mat time.... but, it's not all about that. One must know how to teach, have strong basics, etc, which I suppose is more academic. I do feel a lot of new practitioners get lost because of the lack of curriculum in many schools, but from my experience as one gets past say blue belt, I don't think our training should be too curriculum based.... I don't know. I view a lot of what we do as a boxer or a kickboxer, you do your time, work with your teammates and coaches.... It's a fighting activity and while there is a lot of techniques to learn, I just don't think it's all about academia... There is a balance for sure and no place is going to have it perfect... I don't think. I do feel strongly that the mat is our lab... we should experiment, some things will fail, while other times you will discover something....
Lastly, I'm not knocking GU at all. I'm sure the courses a excellent, but I feel it should be a supplement, like instructional DVD's and it should never be the main course in which you learn and most of all in how you get promoted."
I think I'm a bit irked at the subtle twist the supporters of GU try to put on the debate. I don't think anyone objects to the material or to selling instructional, selling subscriptions to info, etc.
Everyone (IMO) is objecting to ONLINE RANKING and VIDEO BASED TESTING.
The GU supporters then lump it all into an overall GU objection thing, points to the quality of the curriculum, and wonders why everyone supports other DVD's, instructionals, and subscription sites but is against GU. I don't think anyone much minds that they are pedaling information. But the reason so many are buying this particular information is because "it comes with a belt" (or the path the obtain one through the mail after submitting footage).
I don't think anyone much cares what DVD you want to release. But bottom line, they are signing off on mail order belts, ranks, certificates, etc. And yes, that's bunk IMO.
EvilGumby - I think I'm a bit irked at the subtle twist the supporters of GU try to put on the debate. I don't think anyone objects to the material or to selling instructional, selling subscriptions to info, etc.
Everyone (IMO) is objecting to ONLINE RANKING and VIDEO BASED TESTING.
The GU supporters then lump it all into an overall GU objection thing, points to the quality of the curriculum, and wonders why everyone supports other DVD's, instructionals, and subscription sites but is against GU. I don't think anyone much minds that they are pedaling information. But the reason so many are buying this particular information is because "it comes with a belt" (or the path the obtain one through the mail after submitting footage).
I don't think anyone much cares what DVD you want to release. But bottom line, they are signing off on mail order belts, ranks, certificates, etc. And yes, that's bunk IMO.
Hmm, not sure I'm interpreting your question correctly. I'm hoping to answer it honestly though. If you're asking "How does GU deciding to award mail order belts affect me?"
FRAT warning below...
My opinion is that is hastens the inevitable slide of BJJ towards TKD. I came up in Hapkido and TKD back in the 80's (yes, I'm old). And saw the progression of the strip mall black belt to the soccer-Mom/TKD parent. The black belts in those systems eventually become attendance and time based and completely meaningless. I'm comfortable bashing on those blackbelts because I have a few of them. I saw the Koreans cashing in on the Olympic window of TKD and people wanting to be "black belts" back when it was governed by the USTU in the early 90's. (Just like the IBJJF and Pans/Worlds is happening now.)
And BJJ is following the same trajectory here almost verbatim. So, it affects me by making BJJ not the casual, easy going training environment, combat sport where purple means something, brown means something, etc. And turning into the bowing, lining up, memorizing "moves", and getting honorary and technical belts. Eventually we have rehearsed tests, pre-teen brown belts, and lots of "call me Sir", "bow to your Sensei".
BJJ was awesome because you were asked to call your instructor by his first name or "Coach" if you insisted and the blue belts could wreck me even though I was bigger and stronger. Because if they couldn't, they would still be a white belt. It didn't matter that your card was punched or that the designated time had elapsed, if you weren't ready to swim with the bigger fish, you spent more time in the minnow pond.
So the Cliff's notes is that "it effects me" by watering down the sport and taking a giant leap towards changing BJJ into the grappling version of TKD. And that's something I want no part of. I've invested right around 10 years of hobbyist passion into a sport and I'm resistant to it being destroyed while being called the same thing. I'd like to be able to hang onto the notion that a Black Belt in BJJ can turn most people into a pretzel for as long as possible. And delay the strutting Suburbanite belt-wearing bad-ass that gets mowed over by a HS varsity wrestler while brimming with false confidence thinking he is uber-prepared for whatever may cometh his way.
UGCTT_Fillthy - i don't think you understand the level of their expectations.
and we're talking about 'technical' blue belts.
the only reason that we are talking about technical blues is because they were called out on the bullshit practice of handing out blue belts on the internet by pretty much everyone in the community, and in their own family. If there was no calling of this bullshit, they would still be selling blue belts on line. Lets not lose site of this important fact.
EvilGumby - Hmm, not sure I'm interpreting your question correctly. I'm hoping to answer it honestly though. If you're asking "How does GU deciding to award mail order belts affect me?"
FRAT warning below...
My opinion is that is hastens the inevitable slide of BJJ towards TKD. I came up in Hapkido and TKD back in the 80's (yes, I'm old). And saw the progression of the strip mall black belt to the soccer-Mom/TKD parent. The black belts in those systems eventually become attendance and time based and completely meaningless. I'm comfortable bashing on those blackbelts because I have a few of them. I saw the Koreans cashing in on the Olympic window of TKD and people wanting to be "black belts" back when it was governed by the USTU in the early 90's. (Just like the IBJJF and Pans/Worlds is happening now.)
And BJJ is following the same trajectory here almost verbatim. So, it affects me by making BJJ not the casual, easy going training environment, combat sport where purple means something, brown means something, etc. And turning into the bowing, lining up, memorizing "moves", and getting honorary and technical belts. Eventually we have rehearsed tests, pre-teen brown belts, and lots of "call me Sir", "bow to your Sensei".
BJJ was awesome because you were asked to call your instructor by his first name or "Coach" if you insisted and the blue belts could wreck me even though I was bigger and stronger. Because if they couldn't, they would still be a white belt. It didn't matter that your card was punched or that the designated time had elapsed, if you weren't ready to swim with the bigger fish, you spent more time in the minnow pond.
So the Cliff's notes is that "it effects me" by watering down the sport and taking a giant leap towards changing BJJ into the grappling version of TKD. And that's something I want no part of. I've invested right around 10 years of hobbyist passion into a sport and I'm resistant to it being destroyed while being called the same thing. I'd like to be able to hang onto the notion that a Black Belt in BJJ can turn most people into a pretzel for as long as possible. And delay the strutting Suburbanite belt-wearing bad-ass that gets mowed over by a HS varsity wrestler while brimming with false confidence thinking he is uber-prepared for whatever may cometh his way.
(Whew, rant mode off. lol)
It seems like you love BJJ and are genuinely trying to defend it instead of just flexing your finger muscles and typing some hate and for that I respect your opinion and views man.
Just a question, what do you see wrong with the bowing and "yes sir"?
If taught properly it is a sign of respect, trust and structure. Not submissivness. My students respect me because of the knowledge I have and they trust me because they can see I have a passion and genuinely want to help them better themselves. My 4 year old with no focus and my 70 year MIA/POW war vet both bow to me. And without hesitation i bow to them. They don't bow because I am some sort of king.
"Yes sir" is a response. It lets me know they are paying attention and understand. Again, a sign of respect and trust. I earn my students respect I don't demand it. To teach the bow and the answers as a way for your students to be submissive is completely wrong. It's not like this:
Me- do this kick this way
Student- but couldn't they do this?
Me- just say yes sir and do it!!
If they have a concern/question I will answer it to the best of my ability. The "yes sir" is a confirmation response from them as a "thank you for your answer, I understand now"
Again, if taught properly as a sign of respect and trust. I don't see why there is a problem.
p.s. damn! I never realized how much I relied on my auto spell check when I usually post from my phone!!!
" again, I don't think people appreciate the standard that they set. Even if it was a blue belt, it's still just a blue belt. Let's not lose sight of that important fact."
maybe im just skewed because in my day, a blue belt was a hell of an achievement. I busted my ass off for it (which I got at the gracie academy)
UGCTT_Fillthy - they're not selling belts online, they never did. And they ran this program for years, with their grandfather and father's blessing (and the tacit support of the other family members). It wasn't until Rener said that the online curriculum worked better for SOME people, that the owners of 'traditional affiliate systems' got all worked up.
again, I don't think people appreciate the standard that they set. Even if it was a blue belt, it's still just a blue belt. Let's not lose sight of that important fact.
This is true. The GU has been around since 2008. 6 years. It initially got some negative feedback but did not get the negative shit storm until Rener said that. And said online training is better then live training.
It is better in a few ways. However, if you have full access to a great qualified gym and great instructor, you should choose the gym every time. One problem is that not all the gyms are great and not all the instructors are great. So what about the guy that really wants to train but doesn't live near a gym? What about that soccer mom that wants to learn basic defense but doesn't want to train with a bunch of sweaty men? What about that CEO that has a crazy schedule and cannot find the time to join a BJJ gym? The GU isn't for everyone just like an MMA/BJJ gym isn't for everyone.
The belts are a great idea for someone to set goals, see and gauge their own personal progress. I think the bigger problem people have is that it is the same exact belt system. If it was a different belt system it probably wouldn't get as much hate.
" again, I don't think people appreciate the standard that they set. Even if it was a blue belt, it's still just a blue belt. Let's not lose sight of that important fact."
maybe im just skewed because in my day, a blue belt was a hell of an achievement. I busted my ass off for it (which I got at the gracie academy)
maybe that is my point....
You busted your ass to earn your blue belt, no one can ever take that away from you. But that doesnt mean that a GU blue belt didnt bust his ass to get his belt. We all bust our asses in some way or another to get to where we are.
You're lucky that the time of the blue belt enforcer has past, because they would have shown up at your basement internet dojo and showed you what you e-belt was worth. After they had tuned up by choking out silverback gorillas and fully grown african lions of course
in my opinion....the GU ctc blue belt is not the same level as the G.A. torrance blue belt.
at torrance...the white belt gets bumped into the master cycle class and exposed to live sparring and drilling and all the upper belts smashing on him. and more advanced techinique.
this does not happen at the ctc's with just a blue belt instructor,
now, the ctc's with black belt instructors like chet in indiana, and ty in oklahoma, i think are going to produce a better quality blue belt. and their students still must submit a video test for their blue.
i think i would like to see a spar session or an in house tournament between these two types of ctc students. i think the black belt ctc student would out perform the blue belt ctc student, in a spar session. thats my guess. i also think that the black belt ctc student would do well against other tournament school type of blue belts in a spar session.
in my opinion....the GU ctc blue belt is not the same level as the G.A. torrance blue belt.
at torrance...the white belt gets bumped into the master cycle class and exposed to live sparring and drilling and all the upper belts smashing on him. and more advanced techinique.
this does not happen at the ctc's with just a blue belt instructor,
now, the ctc's with black belt instructors like chet in indiana, and ty in oklahoma, i think are going to produce a better quality blue belt. and their students still must submit a video test for their blue.
i think i would like to see a spar session or an in house tournament between these two types of ctc students. i think the black belt ctc student would out perform the blue belt ctc student, in a spar session. thats my guess. i also think that the black belt ctc student would do well against other tournament school type of blue belts in a spar session.
Hargreaves - the point of the 1st vid was to show just how good an instructional can get.
No way you can't learn from the Sperry series
I know, I get it. Most instructors have looked at videos and learned techniques, drills, games, exercises and used them the very next day in classes. I downloaded the Jason scully app a week ago. AMAZING!!!!
" again, I don't think people appreciate the standard that they set. Even if it was a blue belt, it's still just a blue belt. Let's not lose sight of that important fact."
maybe im just skewed because in my day, a blue belt was a hell of an achievement. I busted my ass off for it (which I got at the gracie academy)
maybe that is my point....
You busted your ass to earn your blue belt, no one can ever take that away from you. But that doesnt mean that a GU blue belt didnt bust his ass to get his belt. We all bust our asses in some way or another to get to where we are.
Uhhhhh, totally no homo!
And the Tiddly-winks player, squash competitor, and ping pong Olympian all also bust their asses to get where they are as well. But they don't call it BJJ and don't try to measure it against it or draw it's certification/resume building strength from it by relating it to BJJ.
