Through the whole shitstorm he has had in his life lately with MMA, Yoshida has remained humble, respectful and gracious..His interviews and diary posts are written as if he was a beginner and lucky to even be able to compete...He made me want to be more like that..no excuses, no angry or disrespectful comments, no need to gloat when he won, or place blame when he dosnt etc...
I have much respect for Yoshida and he has taught me a lesson about how to handle myself with grace under fire..
Agreed. His conduct has been very good and there are numerous competitors in many sports that should follow his example.
I'm not a fan of his, I don't think he is a high level fighter and I think he needs to learn more no-gi grappling and get more mma experience. But there is no reason for all the negativity towards him 'cause he seems like a very respectful person.
Truly, Yoshida remains on the Gentle Way.
I agree that Yoshida has made some progress as an mma fighter. The fight with Silva proved that he belongs in there, although he's not top level.
I think he pulled a trick on Royce in the first fight by telling the ref in Japanese (which Royce couldn't understand that Royce was out). Now perhaps you look at it as a crafty trick of a veteran and you say Royce as a professional never should have put himself in a position where that can happen. Things like this happen in all professional sports: baseket ball (guys pretending they were charged with a big theatric fall to the floor); baseball (pitchers scuffing the ball; batter using corked bats; catchers moving their gloves to make a ball look like a strike); soccer (guys pretending their injured at the end: the stretcher comes in an they can taken to the sidelines where they jump up and start running back and forth); football (runners rolling forward after the whistle to try and get those extra yards). This stuff happens and if it's your team it's "all part of the game" and if it's the other side they're dirty bastards.
Personally, I think doing something that prematurely and wrongly ends a fight is bs and not something I'm happy about. You can tell that I'm a bjj loyalist.
But, I'll say here that Royce antics in Royce vs. Yoshida II also left a bad taste in my mouth. I'm tired of Royce constantly agitating for his own rules. He gets away with it because he's Royce Gracie and he puts fan's asses in seats. But then he wants to have it both ways by getting a draw under his own rules and then claiming the victory. To top it off Royce pulls some last minute stunt by yanking his gi top off and robs the fans of seeing the big bjj vs. judo match. Then to top it off, he still can't finish Yoshida. Yoshida may have seen Royce walk in without the gi top and had his game plan ruined and thought I'll just ride it out and get a draw (which he managed to do).
Vito, I do not believe that Yoshida cheated..I also do not believe Royce was out..But to understand how both of those things can be true, we have to look at how Yoshida trained and fought and why he would be led to believe he was out..
Yoshida is a total sport Judoka who has just lately switched to MMA..That means everyone he has ever attempted to choke in competition tried to get out, they didnt relax and go limp..In what he does, if you go limp from where he was at, it's over...
He has said in interviews that he asked the ref if he was out, and did not tell him he was...He felt Royce go limp (we can all see him relax just watching the tape), and asked if he was out, the ref checked and decided to stop the fight..To me, that means the ref didnt do his job properly and does not reflect on Yoshida what so ever..This is all verifyable by watching the tape..Yoshida says something to the ref, the ref scrambles to see if Royce is out, but calls it before he gets a real good look. He didnt just hear Yoshida and stop the fight, he made a judgement call..So it was he who all the blame should rest on....
The conspiracy theories are a bit far fetched for me.
he asked the ref if he was out, and did not tell him he wasthis is the point most refuse to understand in order to try to blame Yoshida.
I guess having been a fighter and a referee, I just dont see how Yoshida can get blamed..
It makes people look desperate for an excuse when one isnt even needed.
Yoshida to me is the epitamy of an experienced competitor who has experienced rising to the top of the food chain, and then fading off. He seems very comfortable with where he has gone and where he is going. A true competitor who is testing himself and not chasing medals.
Its unusual to see him act so humble though; I think that is a rare thing amoung champions for better or worse. Is that an American thing?
I definitely blame the ref more than Yoshida. I can understand
Quincy's explanation of why Yoshida might have thought Royce
was out. But what leaves a bad taste in my mouth is that Yoshida
didnt say anything after the fact. What would have been best is if
right after the stop, when it became apparent that Royce was not
out, Yoshida acknowledged that a mistake had been made. If not
that, then at least in the days after. Except for the ultra-radicals
like pdeking, bjj and judo guys together agree that the stop itself
was premature. Yoshida should have said something. However,
aside from that, Yoshida seems like a cool guy to me and
undeserving of the intense hate he gets on the UG.
I wouldn't blame yoshida even if he did tell the ref that Royce was out. Its the ref's job to determine whether he is or not.
On the Japan forum, a member has translated entries from Yoshida's diary. I think it gives some great insight into Yoshida.
Men are usually remembered for their triumphs; but I feel how a man carries himself through defeat and setbacks teaches us more about the man himself. I gotta say I respect Yoshida more after his loss to Silva and his draw with Royce than I did in his victories.
Why did Royce speak at the post fight as if he was the winner? I think he just used Pride to show playground brawl.
I agree with bush hog.
If Yoshida was truely an honerable man, he would have told told the officials that Royce was not out. Immediately after the fight, Royce grabs Yoshida and pleads with him to tell the officials the truth. Yoshida refuses and acts like it not his problem. This is wrong and unlike a true hero. Then his eyes light up as he grabs the trophy and celebrates "Japan's" victory.
"I have lost before... I know how to lose... Just don't rob me!" - Royce
He obviously believed Royce was out..You have the benefit of watching a tape over and over, that fight ended fast, no ability for yoshida to rewind and study Royce to see if he was out like we have, he felt him go limp and the ref stopped the fight.
I am sure at the time he felt like he had won. Yoshida dosnt speak english, how does he know what the hell Royce was saying??.
It is real easy to study a 3rd and 4th person perspective on tape over and over and make a decision if a guy was out or not, its a lot different deciding split second, guy goes limp, ref calls it.
You wouldnt think you had won if you where choking someone, felt him go limp, asked the ref to check and the ref stopped it?
There's a difference between going "limp" and relaxing, waiting for your opponent to move and make a mistake so you can escape.
Royce was relaxing, preparing for the elbow escape. If you truely understand the mechanics of the choke Yoshida was trying to execute, you would understand that the arm behind Royce's neck was not in the proper position to complete the choke.
Yoshida is obviously very found of this choke (tokui-waza maybe?), and would know in his mind if he had it secure or not.
If you watch the Tamura choke, it looks much much more clean. His atempt against Royce was very sloppy and loose. He had no pressure against the important areas on the neck. The only thing he did was smother the action with his chest and belly. The ref could not see anything, must less check to see if indeed Royce was out.
Proof...
Thread:
http://www.mma.tv/TUF/DisplayMessages.cfm?TID=349596&P=58&FID=1&c=1
Photo:
http://www.whaledog.com/Wallid/gracieyoshida.jpg
Videos:
http://www.whaledog.com/Wallid/RoyceYoshida.wmv
http://www.onthemat.com/Images/royce_mini/royce-yoshida.wmv
Yoshida *knew* Royce was not out.
Very dishonerable indeed. :(
If we were to present a representative for more general MMA acceptance, I couldn't imagine a better candidate with excellent credentials ... Randy is another one.
Why would Yoshida tell the ref to restart the fight if the ref already made the ruling???
Did Michael Jordan tell the ref that he pushed off on Byron Russell when he made "the shot"?
Does a wide-recieved admit to being out of bounds after catching a game winning touchdown??
These decisions are up to the officials to decide.
Yoshida has been in competitive judo long enough to know that ref decisions aren't always accurate. Sometimes you get a break, sometimes you come out on the short end of the stick.
There's no point in bitching about the ref regarding your honor.
Thomas,humility in sports is a rare thing indeed but occassionally, when you see it - it stands out for all the wrong reasons, because most atheletes are egocentric when they win. It takes a unique individual to maintain a Kiplingnesque attitude to winning or losing, and I feel that Yoshida exemplifies that.
I don't think it's an American, Japanese or cultural thing. It's a characteristic of Judo which I only saw very much later after I took it up. That is, when you get thrown over and over again, and tapped out - you suddenly realise how small you are and how much work you have to do. I think Yoshida knows that this is just one stop on a journey and not the destination itself.
Jack and Coke: Do you have any reading comprehension at all.
Yoshida thought he was out, because of the way he slumped and he asked for the ref to check on him. Royce was unresponsive so the ref stopped the match.
There were only 3 people there, 2 say he was out, 1 says that he wasn't out.
Sorry Royce, yer outnumbered.