Lyoto Machida: Old School Karate

Hey guys,

People seem to like it when I write about traditional martial arts, and Machida always gives me the chance to do that! Pulled out the scanner and lots of old books for this one :)

Hope you don't mind clicking the link and as always all feedback is welcomed!

Cheers,

Jack

I've written plenty about Lyoto Machida's karate over the past two years, but today I thought we would try something different.

I usually speak at length about Machida's striking style, which is very much influenced by tournament karate, and indeed Japanese karate. Shotokan is, after all, considered a Japanese style of karate rather than an Okinawan one.


In karate tournaments, oven gloves must be worn on all striking surfaces.

The differences are many but among the most obvious are that Japanese styles (Wado-Ryu, Shotokan, Kyokushin and it's variants) tend to focus more on repping out basic techniques and practising kata (forms) into infinity. They use longer stances and tend to be more about pure striking than self defence. This is for the simple reason that when Gichin Funakoshi (the founder of Shotokan) went to mainland Japan from Okinawa, he found himself teaching high ranking judoka at the request of Jigoro Kano (the founder of Judo).

Not wanting to teach simple throws and grapples to guys who had spent years turning that into an art form, and having to teach in the regimented environment that the Japanese love, Funakoshi's karate became less Okinawan and more like it is today. Looking at Shotokan next to more traditional Okinawan styles such as Goju-ryu and Uechi-Ryu, they are starkly contrasted.

The truth of it is that real karate, as in the original applications (orbunkai) of the forms, is not going to win you many tournaments. Karate developed from the citizens of a disarmed Japanese colony's need to defend themselves from attackers in self defence scenarios, not the need to fight off samurai or other trained martial artists.

Old school karate, the kind found in decent applications of kata, is pretty much all about grabbing at the crotch, headbutting, and breaking free of grabs or defending basic, street attacker style swings.

That said, Machida himself has shown some slick little techniques which hark right back to the old days of rough and tumble karate. I am a firm believer that many (though not all) old, traditional techniques which look ridiculous can be reconfigured and given an appropriate set up to make them effective. Hell, the Showtime kick should have made us all a little more open minded, that was straight out of a kung fu movie. Today we'll look at one ugly, simple, wooden, old school karate technique which Machida has demonstrated successfully in the octagon.

The Wedge Throw

This technique is sometimes referred to as sukui-nage, which means scooping throw, but there are already two throws in judo which are known as sukui-nage... so let's not confuse things further. For now I'm just going to call it the wedge throw.

Before we go on, I know some of you are curious so here are the two sukui nage from judo.


The first is the traditional version.

The second is the one which proved more practical.

Now onto the throw that I'm talking about. It's different from those two, but more akin to the first.

The idea of stepping behind the opponent's lead leg so that the inner thigh is high on his out thigh, then dumping him over that leg, is an old, old, incredibly old school move. Pretty much any time you see a downward block (gedan-barai / gedan uke) in a karate kata, it can be applied as scooping the opponent over that lead leg. Indeed this is much of what Gichin Funakoshi taught himself.

Here it is demonstrated in the eccentric Shigeru Egami's book, The Heart of Karate Do as an application of a basic downward block. Egami was one of Funakoshi's original students but became gradually more eccentric after Funakoshi's passing.


The Heart of Karate-do, Shigeru Egami

Now of course, in a fist fight in the pub or down a dark alley, the opportunities to dump someone over your lead leg are going to be more forthcoming than against a professional fighter in his well practised stance. Heck, plenty of altercations at the bar see one or both men trip over themselves while throwing punches anyway.

So here is how the Japan Karate Association thought this technique could be best applied against an opponent in a stance, during a kumite match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v38XQJgK7W0

Yep, that is the legendary Keinosuke Enoeda, and no there isn't much tact to it. You dive in deep, and they fall over or they don't. Most of the time they didn't. Watching back any old kumite match it's the usual skittish trading of reverse punches and running. Not much of this being applied at all.


 

Here's Seiji Nishimura, a living karate manual and coach of the Japanese team, demonstrating a much more sensible application of the same technique, in counter to an opponent's attack. And not some BS stepping punch either, the kind of jab you might see in competition or in any combat sport. Even then, however, you would be hard pushed to find examples of it in high level karate competition.

Even Mas Oyama, known for founding a style of karate which was all about striking and not so much about old school self defence techniques, became enamoured with techniques like this in his later life. In Advanced Karate (an incredibly hard book to find in English and one which I am very luck to own), Oyama demonstrates dozens of variations of this simple step behind and bail them over type throw.


Here's one over the arm, as in traditional applications.

Continues at: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1960174-lyoto-machida-old-school-karate

i think for those of us that have been into MMA since the start and really appriciate what it did to reveloutionize hand to hand combat(and mainly the exposeure of certian approaches to training my TMA), always feel a little salty hearing Machida labelled to as a "old school, or traditional martial artist". he can only pull that shit off becuase of his BJJ, MT, Wrestling etc.

 

I am not saying what he does is tom foolery or pure fluke bullshit, mmmmmm its fucking Salty

pross - 


i think for those of us that have been into MMA since the start and really appriciate what it did to reveloutionize hand to hand combat(and mainly the exposeure of certian approaches to training my TMA), always feel a little salty hearing Machida labelled to as a "old school, or traditional martial artist". he can only pull that shit off becuase of his BJJ, MT, Wrestling etc.



 



I am not saying what he does is tom foolery or pure fluke bullshit, mmmmmm its fucking Salty



Oh for sure. He'd be nothing without his BJJ, MT and wrestling experience.



But it's always nice to appreciate the unique points.

Awesome, awesome, awesome

Thanks Jack & VTFU

In early...... standing in my Horse Stance. 

I love that throw. I learned it back in my small circle jj days and have effectively used it over the years. It's such a great move with so many variations once you get in standing grappling range.

VTFU Jack. Another awesome thread.

Jack Slack -


Hey guys,



People seem to like it when I write about traditional martial arts, and Machida always gives me the chance to do that! Pulled out the scanner and lots of old books for this one :)



Hope you don't mind clicking the link and as always all feedback is welcomed!



Cheers,



Jack





I've written plenty about Lyoto Machida's karate over the past two years, but today I thought we would try something different.



I usually speak at length about Machida's striking style, which is very much influenced by tournament karate, and indeed Japanese karate. Shotokan is, after all, considered a Japanese style of karate rather than an Okinawan one.







In karate tournaments, oven gloves must be worn on all striking surfaces.



The differences are many but among the most obvious are that Japanese styles (Wado-Ryu, Shotokan, Kyokushin and it's variants) tend to focus more on repping out basic techniques and practising kata (forms) into infinity. They use longer stances and tend to be more about pure striking than self defence. This is for the simple reason that when Gichin Funakoshi (the founder of Shotokan) went to mainland Japan from Okinawa, he found himself teaching high ranking judoka at the request of Jigoro Kano (the founder of Judo).



Not wanting to teach simple throws and grapples to guys who had spent years turning that into an art form, and having to teach in the regimented environment that the Japanese love, Funakoshi's karate became less Okinawan and more like it is today. Looking at Shotokan next to more traditional Okinawan styles such as Goju-ryu and Uechi-Ryu, they are starkly contrasted.



The truth of it is that real karate, as in the original applications (orbunkai) of the forms, is not going to win you many tournaments. Karate developed from the citizens of a disarmed Japanese colony's need to defend themselves from attackers in self defence scenarios, not the need to fight off samurai or other trained martial artists.



Old school karate, the kind found in decent applications of kata, is pretty much all about grabbing at the crotch, headbutting, and breaking free of grabs or defending basic, street attacker style swings.



That said, Machida himself has shown some slick little techniques which hark right back to the old days of rough and tumble karate. I am a firm believer that many (though not all) old, traditional techniques which look ridiculous can be reconfigured and given an appropriate set up to make them effective. Hell, the Showtime kick should have made us all a little more open minded, that was straight out of a kung fu movie. Today we'll look at one ugly, simple, wooden, old school karate technique which Machida has demonstrated successfully in the octagon.



The Wedge Throw



This technique is sometimes referred to as sukui-nage, which means scooping throw, but there are already two throws in judo which are known as sukui-nage... so let's not confuse things further. For now I'm just going to call it the wedge throw.



Before we go on, I know some of you are curious so here are the two sukui nage from judo.





The first is the traditional version.





The second is the one which proved more practical.



Now onto the throw that I'm talking about. It's different from those two, but more akin to the first.



The idea of stepping behind the opponent's lead leg so that the inner thigh is high on his out thigh, then dumping him over that leg, is an old, old, incredibly old school move. Pretty much any time you see a downward block (gedan-barai / gedan uke) in a karate kata, it can be applied as scooping the opponent over that lead leg. Indeed this is much of what Gichin Funakoshi taught himself.



Here it is demonstrated in the eccentric Shigeru Egami's book, The Heart of Karate Do as an application of a basic downward block. Egami was one of Funakoshi's original students but became gradually more eccentric after Funakoshi's passing.







The Heart of Karate-do, Shigeru Egami



Now of course, in a fist fight in the pub or down a dark alley, the opportunities to dump someone over your lead leg are going to be more forthcoming than against a professional fighter in his well practised stance. Heck, plenty of altercations at the bar see one or both men trip over themselves while throwing punches anyway.



So here is how the Japan Karate Association thought this technique could be best applied against an opponent in a stance, during a kumite match.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v38XQJgK7W0



Yep, that is the legendary Keinosuke Enoeda, and no there isn't much tact to it. You dive in deep, and they fall over or they don't. Most of the time they didn't. Watching back any old kumite match it's the usual skittish trading of reverse punches and running. Not much of this being applied at all.





 



Here's Seiji Nishimura, a living karate manual and coach of the Japanese team, demonstrating a much more sensible application of the same technique, in counter to an opponent's attack. And not some BS stepping punch either, the kind of jab you might see in competition or in any combat sport. Even then, however, you would be hard pushed to find examples of it in high level karate competition.



Even Mas Oyama, known for founding a style of karate which was all about striking and not so much about old school self defence techniques, became enamoured with techniques like this in his later life. In Advanced Karate (an incredibly hard book to find in English and one which I am very luck to own), Oyama demonstrates dozens of variations of this simple step behind and bail them over type throw.







Here's one over the arm, as in traditional applications.



Continues at: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1960174-lyoto-machida-old-school-karate

Awesome thanks! Phone Post 3.0

Shit I voted you up, instead it quoted you Phone Post 3.0

Would offer some feedback on one line - "In karate tournaments, oven gloves must be worn on all striking surfaces."

I fought in JKA tournaments through most of the 80's, and while things may have changed now, we were required to wear gloves that were more like balled-ups socks, and there was no foot gear or shin pads.

The gloves were interesting in that they were open-fingered, which allowed for grabs, judo throws, etc. In fact, they were much, much more comparable to modern MMA gloves than they were to boxing gloves or TKD gloves that covered the whole hand...

Pics of them were surprisingly hard to find, so I wonder if they've changed over the years, but here's what I'm talking about:

http://www.jols.com.au/secure/product.php/2976/141/jols_cotton_hand_protector

Don't forget to click the link http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1960174-lyoto-machida-old-school-karate

 

TTT

Bump

Ttt Phone Post 3.0

People think that Shotakan is nothing but very linear back and forth punching and kicking.

 

That is because over the years many schools, especially in the US changed the art to simplify teaching and satisfy insurance companies.

In the  kata for instance, every turn is a throw.   But no one teaches it.

There are wrist locks and other ju jitsu attacks.  But no one teaches it.

There is so much more.  But much has been lost or not taught for various reasons.

My old teacher would occassionaly pull a technique on one othe black belt students that was so surprising and simple looking, yet shockingly effective that we would gasp.   And it was never taught to us.  

He was an 8th dan Japanese of the old JKA.

Great article Jack, well informed and well written. I always enjoy your breakdown of the martial art, perhaps one day we can share ideas over a beer.

PS-I left the JKA after achieving Shodan partly for this reason.  Not learning anything new except for kata.

I then took JJJ, acheiving 2nd Dan and all of the JJ in Shotokan kata became apparent.

What boggles the mind more than anything else,is how most real ultra traditionalist ( who disdain even tournament karate)karate guy's are now jumping on the Machida Bandwagon..

Most of these "staunch traditionalist" have dowplayed the significance of tournament karate for years ,now want to jump on the Machida bandwagon ........

Regardles of what anyone tells me,Machida intuition to strike and even to throw is directly related to his experience with actually competing in tournaments and sparring in karate.


None of his actions or his suscess in the cage are really derived from some old mystic kata that most traditionalist would want you to believe is the reason.

As matter of fact Machida..uses alot fo training method's and training equipment that would not even be allowed in most traditional shotokan schools even today...

That Nishimura move is badass. Thanks, Jack...you always bring the good stuff. Phone Post 3.0

sub.

e. kaye - 


PS-I left the JKA after achieving Shodan partly for this reason.  Not learning anything new except for kata.



I then took JJJ, acheiving 2nd Dan and all of the JJ in Shotokan kata became apparent.



I can definitely relate regarding the kata thing. I think saying screw it and exploring other options is a good idea for everyone sometimes. Then you're finding moments for the old stuff in whatever new thing you're practicing, or you go back to the old style with a whole new perspective later on.