"but don't know any that want to put on head gear, have standing 8 counts, and be told they can't strike on the ground."
The majority of fighters are not very smart and don't care for their own personal well being so that does not surprise me. That's why it's important for most of them to have a very good manager to do it for them.
"wouldn't taking out all strikes to the head be the best thing?"
And that will prepare them for professional MMA how? Isn't that what you have been crying about this whole time? How are you supposed to learn how to fight against strikes to the head if you never face it? I think shooto's amatuer rules are the best. Headgear, shinpads and no head strikes on the ground. Elbows are illegal anywhere in shooto so that comes with it.
"All I am asking you for in the data that helped you come to your conclusions."
Shooto, Pancrase, DEEP, ZST etc have 15 years of using this successfully. If you want to research it feel free to look it up for yourself.
Magnum TA - "I have already said that they should consider paying ammy's."
If you are paid that automatically makes you a professional.
"Making the grappling part of MMA more difficult by adding shin pads and head gear and limiting subs could also conceivably make ammy MMA less safe instead of more safe."
Don't you think they would have figured this out in Japan after putting on fights like this for 15 years? If it was less safe they would not be doing it. Shooto is easily the most strict organization in the world both amateur and pro.
"Again, if we really worried about ammy safety, let's do away with any strikes to the head."
Now you are basically agreeing with us. It took you long enough.
Ammys get paid all the time. I don't know a single ammy fight that our guys haven't been paid something. Just like college football right?
Again, just because they do it in Japan, doesn't make it right. They also think that porn involving eels in a woman's vagina is a good thing and I think we can all agree that is it is not.
As for no strikes to the head, I think that an easy compromise instead of the 6-7 rule changes they talking about. Still, I need to see the data that shows this is needed before I am completly on board.
"Ammys get paid all the time. I don't know a single ammy fight that our guys haven't been paid something."
Technically that is illegal. Once you receive compensation you are automatically a pro. If someone does not catch you then so be it.
Magnum TA - "wouldn't taking out all strikes to the head be the best thing?"
And that will prepare them for professional MMA how? Isn't that what you have been crying about this whole time? How are you supposed to learn how to fight against strikes to the head if you never face it? I think shooto's amatuer rules are the best. Headgear, shinpads and no head strikes on the ground. Elbows are illegal anywhere in shooto so that comes with it.
My contention is it alters ammy MMA less if they just change that rule instead of all the other rules that they talking about. If you havn't figured it out, I think these rules greatly affect the ground game and only sightly change the stand-up game. You can face head strikes all you want in your boxing and kickboxing training. In reality I don't think we are that far off on our views except I am not convinced their is real issue here that warrents rule changes. If there is a reason to change the rules, then I am for it, but would like a discussion on what is the best way to go about it. I think there are better options to discuss than what is being put out there now.
There is nothing to discuss. The rules changes are coming and you can't do anything about it. We can split it apart here a 1000 different ways but it won't change that reality. You are the only one here who seems to have a problem with it, too bad for you.
Magnum TA - "Ammys get paid all the time. I don't know a single ammy fight that our guys haven't been paid something."
Technically that is illegal. Once you receive compensation you are automatically a pro. If someone does not catch you then so be it.
Like I said, I haven't been to an ammy fight where they weren't paid. Sure it is in the form of say $100-300 for "travel, room and food", even though they live 15 miles away, but it is done. There are creative ways to "pay" the fighters and most promotions do pay in one way or another. Sure it may not be technically legal, but at least the fighters aren't putting their health on the line for free.
"Like I said, I haven't been to an ammy fight where they weren't paid. Sure it is in the form of say $100-300 for "travel, room and food", even though they live 15 miles away, but it is done. There are creative ways to "pay" the fighters and most promotions do pay in one way or another. Sure it may not be technically legal, but at least the fighters aren't putting their health on the line for free."
More proof that there needs to be more regulation in American amatuer MMA. In Hawaii the shows cannot even provide water to amatuer fighters in the dressing room because it is considered compensation. The rules are still pretty screwed up though.
Magnum TA - There is nothing to discuss. The rules changes are coming and you can't do anything about it.
Then I guess we will see what the positive and negative effects of this will be.
I know this is coming and that is why I started this thread. Just because government is forcing something on the us doesn't mean there isn't anything to discuss.
By chance do you know if this is a voluntary rule change by all the states? If it not voluntary, then what federal body has the right to tell the state commissions how to run MMA in their states? Just curious.
Magnum TA - "Like I said, I haven't been to an ammy fight where they weren't paid. Sure it is in the form of say $100-300 for "travel, room and food", even though they live 15 miles away, but it is done. There are creative ways to "pay" the fighters and most promotions do pay in one way or another. Sure it may not be technically legal, but at least the fighters aren't putting their health on the line for free."
More proof that there needs to be more regulation in American amatuer MMA. In Hawaii the shows cannot even provide water to amatuer fighters in the dressing room because it is considered compensation. The rules are still pretty screwed up though.
More proof that state athletic commissions are not good at their jobs. Different argument though.
"By chance do you know if this is a voluntary rule change by all the states? If it not voluntary, then what federal body has the right to tell the state commissions how to run MMA in their states? Just curious."
Maybe you shoud look into that yourself since you are the one who is so uncomfortable with it. Have fun
Magnum TA - "By chance do you know if this is a voluntary rule change by all the states? If it not voluntary, then what federal body has the right to tell the state commissions how to run MMA in their states? Just curious."
Maybe you shoud look into that yourself since you are the one who is so uncomfortable with it. Have fun
Your resonse pretty much sumed up our discussion on this thread.
I will get the info and report back to you with the facts once I have them.
AnthonySullivan -liquidsoul - That's how ammy mma should have been all along.
^ this
Things should be just like ammy boxing. Ammy MMA is supposed to be there for fighters to learn the basics and not get hurt in making their decision. I don't see why any fighter would have a problem with this. He shouldn't be out there getting KO'd for no pay just so some Missouri promoter can make money.
By the time many of these good ammy fighters are making their pro debuts they're already shot from having too many ammy wars. Right now there's really no difference between the two and there should be. Only people making a buck off ammy fighting should have a problem with making it safer.
It is as clear to me as it is to you. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fucking retarded.
Hmmmm 
After spending some time researching this and talking with some of the powers that be, it turns out a lot of rumors about changes to ammy MMA are false.
As I thought, there is no federal/national body that can tell the states what rules to adopt. There will be changes to the ammy unified rules, but states can do what they want.
The changes that will likely happpen are shin guards (because there was a death in an ammy KB match due to head kick) and no heal hooks. Also looking at no knees to the head standing as well as on the ground.
Headgear is not something they are seriously looking at because it interfers too much with grappling (their words). Strikes to head of grounded opponent also will remain legal. They looked at heavier MMA gloves but no changes their either.
So there you have what I have been told. I don't have a major issue with these rules if this is what they think is best. Sounds like the shin guards are going to be as small as possible so shouldn't interfer too much with grappling. I rarely if ever have seen heal hooks in ammy MMA so not a big deal, and While I think taking away knees to head will hurt the better strikers, I can see the concern.
When I talked to Joe miller about the rules being changed, he confirmed they are going to change here, just not as drastically as the outlined ones on this forum.
He said we may have levels of ammy competition with the start being similar to the rules outlined and move through 2-3 levels with the end result being full pro rules with 3 minute rds to leopard the guys for the jump in competition.
Also maybe a minimum amount of pro fights before turning pro with exceptions of elite level wrestlers, bjj blackbelts, and high level strikers. This is in place in Florida, Pennsylvania, that I know of for sure.
How do you have a minimum amount of "pro" fights before turning "pro"????
Sorry, typo. I meant to say
Minimum amount of ammy fights before turning pro.
rule changes might be a good thing