Matt Furey's products

Underground
21

"I would also say that BJJ control with high percentage submissions is more efficient than just going for exotic locks from all positions."

Here's another guy that doesn't know what he's taliking about. Positioning and control in wrestling is far superior to hips high on the knees hugging of judo and jiujitsu. What the hell are you talking about going for exotic holds from anywhere? Submission wrestling is all about positioning and control.

I don't care if Rickson was 72 years old, he was much more fit and healthy than Funaki, plus he is very good.

Matt Furey preys on all of the suckers, and there appears to be alot of them out there.

I say give your money to the Red Cross to help Tsunami victims and DO NOT give your money to people like Matt Furey.

22

Kansetsuwaza is correct. That is why you see all of the really successful fighters rushing to Japan or flying in catchwrestlers to train them. Aside from Sakuraba, who has displayed this awesome Catch style?

If you think BJJ is limited compared to "submission", you have no idea at all what you are talking about. At all. As in none. Like zero, but even less.

But I agree with you about sending money to the Red Cross.

23

Hey, straight BJJ is very predictable and limited. Luckily, many see this and train full submission, wrestling,etc, etc, etc. Anyone sticking to straight sport BJJ has been left in the dust.

Do not refer to grappling as BJJ. BJJ is one type of grappling, not grappling itself. Andre of all people should know that.

Besides Sakuraba, There are long lists of names of good submission wrestlers all over the world.

24

good point, let's get back on track.

but my argument was not Catch vs BJJ.

25

kansetsuwaza,

I'll be interested to hear if Gotch actually teaches you the catch wrestling that apparently nobody else in the world knows. If I recall correclty, you wrote that he was going to start teaching you actual Catch Wrestling beginning in February.

It seems that there have been a lot of guys who have gotten hyped up on what Gotch tells them, but they never seem to actually learn the "real" stuff.

The catch wrestling I've seen from Tony C. has some very good stuff. There are some things I really like and some things I don't bother with. Which is just like many of the bjj instructionals I've seen.

My guess is that Gotch's system is the same - some good stuff, but not all it's been hyped up to be.

I'll be interested to hear what you learn.

26

fightsfan - what is direct response marketing?

27

bjj is all you need for the ground. Whether catch influenced bjj is another story, but with the range of techniques and strategies in bjj from Eddie Bravo to Rey Diogo to Marcelo Garcia to Ryron Gracie, it is counterproductive to search for the magic bullet elsewhere.

28

"fightsfan - what is direct response marketing?"

Stuff like this: http://www.2-small-business.com/internet_gazette.shtml (scroll down for the Matt Furey testimonial)

It's the kind of marketing Matt Furey and Loyd Irvin use. (The diffeence between the two is that one is a fraud and the other is a legit bjj black belt instructor.)

29

I have been training submission for 12 years, longer than most people these days. Many people know about wrestling. What do you mean a style that no one knows? Alot of people know about wrestling and submissions.

I do not believe in "Catchwrestling". Whatever I have learned or will learn from Gotch will just be tightening up knowlege that I already possess.

Gotch is very knowledgable about wrestling and jiujitsu.

I am not and never will be some bullshit "Catch" guru like some people claim to be.

It's just wrestling. Stop looking for the mysticism behind it.

30

"I have been training submission for 12 years, longer than most people these days. Many people know about wrestling. What do you mean a style that no one knows? Alot of people know about wrestling and submissions."

I mean to refer to statements of yours like the following:

======================

"Submission wrestling today = jiujitsu without a gi with a few leg locks added, which is OK.

"Submission wrestling then = SUBMISSION WRESTLING, for real. They were light years ahead of us back then."

(from http://www.mma.tv/TUF/index.cfm?ac=ListMessages&PID=1&TID=500978&FID=26&p=74)

======================

You imply in that statement that Gotch will be teaching you a system of submission wrestling that 1) has been forgotten by the rest of the world. amd 2) is better than anything we have today.

Like I said, I'll be interested to hear what techniques (if any) you actually learn from Gotch. Everybody that I've who interacts with Gotch ends up explaining that virtually everybody else who claimed to learn from Gotch never learned the "real thing" or never got past the conditioning.

Good luck to you. I hope your story ends up different than the rest.

31

The point I am trying to make is not to be limited in your approach to grappling. Statements like "BJJ is all you need" will get you nowhere.
Just strip away all the names and limitations and just train wrestling, with no limits or boundaries.

There is no "Gotch system".

Conditioning is the greatest hold.

Now can we get back to the subject of this thread?

32

"There is no 'Gotch system'."

Interesting. What's Gotch going to teach you, then? Will it be the 'Submission wrestling then' style of submission wrestling, which is light years ahead of us today? If so, I'd like to hear about what you learn.

[btw, I am referring to this statement "He shows me alot already, but I think Karl will start "fully" training me on the mat around February or so." http://www.mma.tv/TUF/index.cfm?ac=ListMessages&PID=1&TID=500978&FID=26&p=74]

33

Stick it up your ass, kansetsuwaza. Who said I was talking just about sport BJJ?

As far as Rickson being in much better shape than Funaki, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Funaki with the much more active fighting career at the time they fought and the one using Gotch's conditioning methods?

34

The "system" is not better than today, but the popularity of wrestling in the past caused a bigger talent pool and the work ethic of people of the time made them better.

There is nothing that Gotch knows that I do not, but he tightens up some of my stuff.

I am getting in great shape, and that is the best hold.

Most people do not get through his conditioning.

You seem to be very stuck on labels and styles and systems.

There is no system.

35

"The point I am trying to make is not to be limited in your approach to grappling."

Isn't that what BJJ is all about? Isn't that the reason why it was able to defeat all other styles, including Pancrase back in the day? Notice how quick Pancrase was to adopt BJJ positioning and holds after they saw their hero Ken Shamrock get choked by Royce?

36

"He shows me alot already, but I think Karl will start "fully" training me on the mat around February or so."

Yes, I hope we start doing more on the mat when my shoulder heals. Right now we work setups and positioning and holds on the ground. All stuff I know.

But there is no secret style or witches potion the guy will give me.

Like I said, it is just wrestling without limits, no style or set thing, stop looking for the mysticism behind it because there isn't any.

37

"There is nothing that Gotch knows that I do not, but he tightens up some of my stuff."

Why do I highly doubt that? In reality, he's probably forgotten more stuff than you know.

38

No wonder Matt Furey is able to sell "secrets" and other BS, with guys like you out there he must be a milionaire.

Always looking for answers that don't exist.

39

Nothing new is under the sun.

KW, there are no secret new techniques for me to learn from Gotch, but he is a good coach and a good coach tightens things up.

40

"You seem to be very stuck on labels and styles and systems.

"There is no system. "

Fine, there is no system. But, if that's the case, then you misled a lot of people when you wrote stuff like this:

==============================

I am not trying to say anything bad about all the great people i have trained with [Paulson, Inosanto, , but as good as we all think we are today, we know very little about real wrestling and grappling. People who have trained with me say that I know alot and I am an 'encyclopedia', i am now convinced, however, that in the grand scheme of things I know very little.

Submission wrestling today = jiujitsu without a gi with a few leg locks added, which is OK.

Submission wrestling then = SUBMISSION WRESTLING, for real. They were light years ahead of us back then.

====================================

While I haven't been submission wrestling for 12 years, I've been around a little while. Guys like you crop up to talk about Gotch every now and then, and your stories are all the same. Even Furey's was the same in the beginning (although he was much more arrogant than you).

I'm just waiting for the day when someone can actually explain what they learn from Gotch that is so much better than what we have today.

As for today's "small" talent pool . . . I would venture to say that there are many more people training in submission wrestling today than there were in 1948 (when Gotch was in the Olympics), or the 1950's and 60's (when he was an active pro wrestler). And that includes Olympic medalitsts, college all Americans, etc. who incroporate submisisons into their wreslting.