Just because there is nothing new under the sun, doesn't mean you know it all. I still learn new stuff after 8 years of grappling. Karl Gotch and Gene Lebell still say they never stop learning even after they've been involved in the grappling arts as long as they have.
Finally, I invite you to watch the 1994 King of Pancrease tournament. Funaki's ability to control his opponent and dominate position was horrible - not even bjj blue belt level. I hope that isn't the type of "wrestling" into submisisons that Gotch shows you.
When I refer to not knowing much despite my long history in grappling. I mean conditioning and mindset and approach to the concept of grappling. Constantly improving, etc.
There is no magic secret style of grappling that no one knows. Just that most people have limited approaches to grappling due to idol worship and other reasons.
Wrestling is not about this technique or that. Nothing new is under the sun.
Stop looking for the magic answers that don't exist.
Of course I never stop learning, Gotch says the same. I didn't mean to imply that I have mastered it all.
There's just no secrets out there.
"Stop looking for the magic answers that don't exist."
I'm not looking for a magic answer. I don't believe such an answer exists.
I'm looking for someone who can substantiate the Karl Gotch hype.
If most of what Gotch teaches is conditinoing - well that's useful, but not quite what Gotch has been hyped up to be.
"Stop looking for the magic answers that don't exist."
I'm not looking for a magic answer. I don't believe such an answer exists.
I'm looking for someone who can substantiate the Karl Gotch hype.
If most of what Gotch teaches is conditinoing and mindset - well that's useful, but not quite what Gotch has been hyped up to be.
Stop looking for the magic answers that don't exist= I'm painted into a corner and will now use vague terms and misdirection to get myself out.
As far as I know, Furey is the only person to come on here and claim this and that.
People created the hype, not Karl Gotch. He just trained and wrestled.
He knows alot about everything. He deserves all the credit he gets, but people take it too far, especially people trying to make a buck off of it.
No Andre, don't be a dick. There just aren't any right answers or secrets to give. Sorry to disappoint.
How did this thread go from a Furey bashing thread to a bashing me for being humble and truthful thread?
Sorry to bust everyones picnic with the "there are no secrets" stuff.
LOL..."Don't be a dick."
The whole reason I'm coming down on you is because you were truly a dick out of nowhere with this post:
"King Wily is an idiot.
Stick to BJJ? That's smart: stick to a limited style like jiujitsu instead of full submission. No thanks. I suggest you do more than just play with holds. Get to actually KNOW things before you dismiss them."
Which was an over the top response to the innocuous post King Willy made:
"I have gotten a lot of use out of his basic conditioning stuff (hindu squats, pushups, back bridge). I figured I couldn't go wrong with those because they came directly from Karl Gotch and am very happy with them. Some of the other stuff I can't really speak for cuz I haven't seen them but, like others have said, you could find on the internet anyway (handstand pushups, etc).
As far as his submission videos, taking into consideration the fact that Rickson tooled one of Gotch's best fighters (Funaki) and the ridiculously high prices, I'd say stick to BJJ and the basic conditioning stuff and forget about it. If you can find Karl Gotch's conditioning tape, get that also. It is very good. Cecchine's stuff looks good at first but after you play around with it a little, you realize it's not of much value."
Andre, I think you're right about the back tracking.
On the other thread, he wrote this:
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"I would like to see [Gotch] take on some more people, but there is no one else that could handle the conditioning and get along with him or understand the way he does things, especially in Tampa. People have a hazy film over their eyes, it's called BJJ. It keeps people from seeing clearly as far as Catch/submission goes."
http://www.mma.tv/TUF/index.cfm?ac=ListMessages&PID=1&TID=500978&FID=26&p=74
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Suddenly, he doesn't know anything about catch wrestling or Gotch's method. In fact, Gotch's method doesn't exist - it's just conditioning and mind set.
" As far as I know, Furey is the only person to come on here and claim this and that."
After Furey left, there was at least one person who cam on the UG to explain what happened. He was training (i.e. doing conditioning) with Gotch at the time. His story, description of past students, ect. were almost identical to yours (which were almost idential to Furey's when he was with Gotch)
Gotch does coach wrestling as well as conditiong and other stuff. It's not all conditioning and mindset, but there is no secret style.
The difference between me an Furey or the other guy is that I am not a newbie. So I am not so quick to dazzle people or to be dazzled. I have tons of respect for Karl Gotch, but he doesn't teach people to fly on broomsticks or anything. I have to be realistic about it. He is still a far better grappling mentor than most people are though.
..and he is great as a conditioning coach.
Thanks for occupying my day (I am on vacation from school).
Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings.
See you next time.
no problem. Im stuck at work while the rest of the company is on vacation so I am probably a bit sensitive today.
Group hug.
I have to go mop the bathroom before the woman of the house gets home form work.
I think what kansetsu meant by the "limiting style" comment was to drop the titles and names, and just take what works, discard what doesn't. Just guessing though. That is after all, the basic theory of MMA.
And yes, I know it came from JKD.
furey is a fraud. I could carve a better man out of a bananna.
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