priziesthorse - Yea over 3 years ago...with current rankings, it was a step back. Woodley was #4 when they fought and Saffiedine was #9 i believe.Actually, my bad- it was Woodley who got the W over Saffeidine.
TheEmperorRises -priziesthorse - Yea over 3 years ago...with current rankings, it was a step back. Woodley was #4 when they fought and Saffiedine was #9 i believe.Actually, my bad- it was Woodley who got the W over Saffeidine.
Still irrelevant though- even with a win over Siver, Conor's obviously gonna get a title shot that he doesn't deserve as much as some of the guys ahead of him.
KnockoutThoughts -"C'mon man.. Are you really comparing Rory MacDonald's to Conor McGregor?"
And yet McDonald is looking to train with him and learn from him calling him cutting edge etc... Just sayin... ;)
"Silly really so Its Aldo that has magical powers and he is the only one that can stop Mendes take downs? Wow..."
It's almost like different people have different levels of takedown defense. How many guys has Mendes been unable to take down?
KnockoutThoughts -priziesthorse -C'mon man.. Are you really comparing Rory MacDonald's to Conor McGregor? MacDonald has fought the who's whos of his division on his way to a title shot. It's been a long road with both wins and losses. He fought Condit, he fought Ellenberger, he fought Woodley, he fought Saffediene, he fought Nate, he fought Robbie, he has fought BIG names who are still in the conversation. Conor is only 4 fights into his career in the UFC, and his win over Porier is the only one that carries real weight. Every fighter on MacDonald's resume has more name recognition than Porier. No disrespect to Porier, but he wasn't a huge talking point in his division. I do like him as a fighter, but he wasn't a big talking point to win the title. Each guy on MacDonald's resume has at some point been in the conversation for a titleshot. Woodley was just surging. Don't compare MacDonald's trek to McGregor's brisk walk through the park. Not equivalent journey to the title shot.KnockoutThoughts -priziesthorse -Alright let's clear this one up. Jones wasn't lined up for a titleshot, he got lucky and jumped in on short notice for injured teammate Rashad Evans, after Jones himself had an impressive win against a then surging undefeated Ryan Bader. Remember when Bader was considered the next big thing and was undefeated? Yea that was when Jones fought him and it was a big thing at the time. Billed as the 2 undefeated hot prospect wrestlers going toe to toe. He didn't get a promise of a titleshot with that win, he got lucky and jumped in for an injured team mate. Special circumstance.KnockoutThoughts - "Aldo has beaten everyone who is anyone so Conor couldn't possibly beat him is your mantra."
The sentiment is not so much he can't, but more so a SHOW us YOU CAN. The adversity to the hype is in it being premature. I consider it a message to the UFC that we are not the gullible idiots they think we are. We don't just fall head over heels for whoever they market as the next big STAR. We actually look at their body of work and determine whether the hype is justified. This kid has everything going for him, now let's see him prove something. That's all I ask, is that too much to ask fightcity? Is it too much to ask to see him in with a top 3 before a gift titleshot? Huh? Is it?
Chris Weidman and Jon Jones didnt beat a top 5 guy before their title shots.
Weidman was not ranked in the top 10 when he beat Munoz. Munoz at the time was ranked #4 at the time and was calling out Anderson for a titleshot. He was on a win streak and had just beat Leben by stoppage. You see the trend was Weidman fought up in competition. Conor McGregor is taking a step backwards on his way to the belt by fighting Siver.
Taking a step back....just like Rory who beat Woodley then Saffiedine and is now getting a shot.
This, the Rory detractors are nuts. Took Maia to the ground and won, then beat Woodley and Ellenberger on their "Big Power" standing terms.
His loss to Robbie was close and then he won two with a stoppage of a guy never stopped in a fight with a belt.
This "Weak titleshot" is ridiculous.
Nice post TMA... ^^^
TMABlackbelt -See the problem I'm finding replying to these type of posts is that the strength of the argument by you Conor defenders is not based on anything substantial. Your whole belief and comparisons are based on hope and wish and pulling numbers out of your ass. Numbers don't lie. Furthermore, betting odds don't have a direct correlation with a fighters chances in a fight, it is simply a risk assessment made by books to favor the side they like better. Books make mistakes too. Don't confuse betting odds with who has a better chance to win. That's not how it works. I wasn't going to reply to this post, because quite honestly it's more of the same diatribe being spewed with no factual basis. In retrospect everything is 20/20 so now it's easy to discredit Ryan Bader. At the time he had a real chance. Since you base your assessment on the books opinion, here goes what they thought. Odds opened at -230 Jones, 170 Bader https://www.bestfightodds.com/fighters/Ryan-Bader-987KnockoutThoughts -priziesthorse -Alright let's clear this one up. Jones wasn't lined up for a titleshot, he got lucky and jumped in on short notice for injured teammate Rashad Evans, after Jones himself had an impressive win against a then surging undefeated Ryan Bader. Remember when Bader was considered the next big thing and was undefeated? Yea that was when Jones fought him and it was a big thing at the time. Billed as the 2 undefeated hot prospect wrestlers going toe to toe. He didn't get a promise of a titleshot with that win, he got lucky and jumped in for an injured team mate. Special circumstance.KnockoutThoughts - "Aldo has beaten everyone who is anyone so Conor couldn't possibly beat him is your mantra."
The sentiment is not so much he can't, but more so a SHOW us YOU CAN. The adversity to the hype is in it being premature. I consider it a message to the UFC that we are not the gullible idiots they think we are. We don't just fall head over heels for whoever they market as the next big STAR. We actually look at their body of work and determine whether the hype is justified. This kid has everything going for him, now let's see him prove something. That's all I ask, is that too much to ask fightcity? Is it too much to ask to see him in with a top 3 before a gift titleshot? Huh? Is it?
Chris Weidman and Jon Jones didnt beat a top 5 guy before their title shots.
Weidman was not ranked in the top 10 when he beat Munoz. Munoz at the time was ranked #4 at the time and was calling out Anderson for a titleshot. He was on a win streak and had just beat Leben by stoppage. You see the trend was Weidman fought up in competition. Conor McGregor is taking a step backwards on his way to the belt by fighting Siver.
Your over all point is valid, but let's not rewrite history to sensationalize that point. Calling Bader the next big thing when Jones beat him is laughable. Yeah, Bader was soo good, that Jones was the HUGE BETTING favorite over Bader. People expected Jones to win. And honestly, it was not that big of a win for Jones IMO. It was a gift match up for Jones. Bader at that time was a one dimentional wrestler who was smaller then Jones and had no shot of out wrestling Jones. You can even argue that Jones got another gift fighting an injuried coming off surgery Shogun with a short notice gift benefiting him even more. Jones definitely had a lot of luck go his way on his path to the title and in winning the title. Youre point about Weidman IS FAR FAR MORE VAILD.
For further comparison since you called Bader a "HUGE" underdog, this weekend Luke Rockhold sits at -440, Bisping is at 350. You don't even want to know what the odds were for Tate vs Rousey. In the fight game being 2-1 is not being a huge underdog. That's normal odds. One person has to be the favorite. If they are both unknown, unproven, or unreliable which can go either way, that's when you see the -105 -125 odds. Otherwise it's usually 2 to 1 or better for the favorite.
Here is some facts Poirier had never been finished in a fight before McGregor he lost a close decision to Swanson. Conor made him look like an ameture some of you guys are saying he was not much of a test he has to fight the top 3. The reason you say that is precisely because Conor is on another level then Dustin or Cub. Disagree? So whats Swanson got for him that you saw in his win over Poirier? Dustin and Cub are on a similar level Dustin was ranked number 5 for a reason... Conor would do similarly to Cub who most think is next in line for a title shot if he beats Frankie... To say these guys are on another level then Conor is not correct IMO...
One thing I don't quite get is the fact that people think Conor should only a title shot if he beats a wrestler.
These same people are the ones shouting to the heavens for Cub Swanson to get a title shot.
Thus I ask those calling for Cub's title shot; what wrestlers has Cub Swanson ever beaten?
priziesthorse -potato623 - One thing I don't quite get is the fact that people think Conor should only a title shot if he beats a wrestler.
These same people are the ones shouting to the heavens for Cub Swanson to get a title shot.
Thus I ask those calling for Cub's title shot; what wrestlers has Cub Swanson ever beaten?
He has beat no wrestlers. He even faced Poirier then was given Siver afterwards the same as Conor, but you didnt see any threads made about the UFC giving Cub safe fights or gimme fights.
While true I don't think anyone was accusing the UFC of rushing cub to a titleshot as some poster boy either.
priziesthorse -potato623 - One thing I don't quite get is the fact that people think Conor should only a title shot if he beats a wrestler.
These same people are the ones shouting to the heavens for Cub Swanson to get a title shot.
Thus I ask those calling for Cub's title shot; what wrestlers has Cub Swanson ever beaten?
He has beat no wrestlers. He even faced Poirier then was given Siver afterwards the same as Conor, but you didnt see any threads made about the UFC giving Cub safe fights or gimme fights.
ChaosOverkill -priziesthorse -potato623 - One thing I don't quite get is the fact that people think Conor should only a title shot if he beats a wrestler.
These same people are the ones shouting to the heavens for Cub Swanson to get a title shot.
Thus I ask those calling for Cub's title shot; what wrestlers has Cub Swanson ever beaten?
He has beat no wrestlers. He even faced Poirier then was given Siver afterwards the same as Conor, but you didnt see any threads made about the UFC giving Cub safe fights or gimme fights.
While true I don't think anyone was accusing the UFC of rushing cub to a titleshot as some poster boy either.
fightcity - And this is just two years after he was submitted. Hes stuffing take downs standing up from them and taking people down and submitting them. This is a great break down of his progress since he was submitted by Duffy. He learned and he is a couple years beyond this now and a brown belt in BJJ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PZlFnddq-U
for OP
Thanks Media Monster much appreciated!
i been a fan of mma since the beginning, And one thing I can tell u McGregor is doing right is people cant stop talking about him He has done a great job promoting himself .
KnockoutThoughts -fightcity - Maybe you can give us a breakdown of why you think Mendes would have more success taking Conor down then he did Aldo other then "he's a better wrestler"? Also you said Duffy would beat him again today what do you say now if Duffy is just a C class?
You act like there is no improvement when in fact he improves extremely fast and he is a couple years past those videos now. And it was more then the same 3 clips now you are really reaching...
After he beats Aldo he will rest his balls on Chads head I hope Siver gets injured and they they throw in one of these so called top tier wrestlers at him...<span class="User-341534" id="userPost51341252">I think the disconnect between you and I is in that I'm not seeing McGregor at the same level as Aldo. McGregor does not equal Aldo. In your eyes you want to hand this guy accolades he hasn't even earned yet. Aldo has shown and proven everything we are giving him credit for. In my eyes they are on 2 different planes. One is already proven, has battled style after style, has beat the cream of the crop fight after fight, and has shown he can prevent being taken down. He's EARNED that against the best guys trying to take him down. Conor is UNPROVEN. He has not faced anyone of the killers in the division. The fight with Siver is not helping his case. I really do believe he has potential, but the UFC is doing him a grand disservice by giving him this sheltered rise. How exactly does a fight with Siver make sense? It doesn't. He would be better served fighting the guys we keep bringing up, because beating them would actually mean something and give credit to his rise. Mendes would beat Conor imho. No hate, it's the truth. I'm not blinded by emotion or hype. I see 2 top athletes, one with much more experience who just fought well against the best to ever do it in the division. He just went 5 with the greatest, while Conor has yet to fight a top fighter. That shit counts, and unlike Silva and Weidman where the new lion replaced the old lion, Aldo is not old and neither is Mendes. <img alt="Phone Post 3.0" border="0" src="/images/phone/apple.png" style="vertical-align:middle;" /></span></blockquote>Correct. McGregor does not equal Aldo, he exceeds him :)
And how does it hurt Conor that he's not facing a big wrestler/top guy before a title shot? Many people, myself included, believe he will beat Aldo, and he obviously he does as well. So, he can test himself against the out and out best right away, and not jump through extra hoops. And if he is unsuccessful, it's not like he's going anywhere. He'll fight many wrestlers and top guys after the Aldo fight, regardless of the result.
It would be better for him and the promotion if he lost to the champ rather than a Ricardo Lamas type character as his first UFC loss too. It just looks better. If he loses to a Lamas type guy after losing the Aldo fight, then he never deserved the shot, but the FW division still got the biggest fight it's ever had (and yes, when McGregor fights Aldo it will be the BIGGEST FW fight ever).
And I think Conor is very similar to Weidman. It's true, Aldo & Mendes are not older like AS, but Conor has been arguably more impressive than Weidman leading up to a title fight. Munoz and Poirier were on similar levels in their divisions when Conor and Weidman fought them. Many doubted before the first Silva fight if Weidman even DESERVED the title shot (extremely similar to what you're doing now). Only difference here is 145 has more guys in a good position to vy for the belt, which is why you're more peeved, understandably so.
EDIT - I hadn't read your Weidman refuatation later in the thread, and to that I say Poirier was #5 when Conor fought him. Undoubtedly a step up. Siver is more for promotional purposes, and to grow Conor with casual fans. He's fighting in the main event, in Boston, and that will be huge considering the reaction he got last time there. He has a favorable matchup... Promotional stuff. Don't forget entertianment playes a huge role in this sport.
More impressive than Weidman huh?? By beating Porier you mean right? Lol... Your dialogue should have ended before you got there. Weidman is undefeated fighting the best in the game. He didn't get gifted a titleshot like McGregor, and he actually had no weaknesses coming in. McGregor HAS a glaring weakness, and despite what you gentleman gobbling his ballsack keep saying about improvements, there is a reason why the UFC is doing everything they can to avoid having it exposed. There is also a reason why you guys are SO against him having to prove himself against a Lamas, a Mendes, or an Edgar. Because he very well might lose against the top fighters in the division. The only way you guys feel confident he makes it to a titleshot is if they gift it him. You don't even have confidence in him being able to get there on his own! Hype is pointless. You fucked up when you said surpasses Aldo. I'll take a battle tested winner against hyped and unproven anyday. I for one will not buy a fight with McGregor in it, although rest assured I will watch it. I like McGregor, but you guys with your outlandish rhetoric about him already being better than Aldo, whilst having done nothing meaningful in the division, makes it very hard to settle down as a fan. He doesn't deserve to be there, and when he gets exposed you guys will just crawl back into the shadows and pretend you didn't make all this fuss. Let this thread die. It's embarrassing.
KnockoutThoughts - More impressive than Weidman huh?? By beating Porier you mean right? Lol... Your dialogue should have ended before you got there. Weidman is undefeated fighting the best in the game. He didn't get gifted a titleshot like McGregor, and he actually had no weaknesses coming in. McGregor HAS a glaring weakness, and despite what you gentleman gobbling his ballsack keep saying about improvements, there is a reason why the UFC is doing everything they can to avoid having it exposed. There is also a reason why you guys are SO against him having to prove himself against a Lamas, a Mendes, or an Edgar. Because he very well might lose against the top fighters in the division. The only way you guys feel confident he makes it to a titleshot is if they gift it him. You don't even have confidence in him being able to get there on his own! Hype is pointless. You fucked up when you said surpasses Aldo. I'll take a battle tested winner against hyped and unproven anyday. I for one will not buy a fight with McGregor in it, although rest assured I will watch it. I like McGregor, but you guys with your outlandish rhetoric about him already being better than Aldo, whilst having done nothing meaningful in the division, makes it very hard to settle down as a fan. He doesn't deserve to be there, and when he gets exposed you guys will just crawl back into the shadows and pretend you didn't make all this fuss. Let this thread die. It's embarrassing.
1) I said leading up to the title shot, in the UFC, yes Conor has been more impressive than Weidman was. Best in the game? Like who? A blown up Maia? Munoz, who yes was on the same level as Poirier was? Jesse Bongfeldt? Come on.
2) You can't possibly say Conor has a glaring weakness. You can speculate as to whether he has a weakness, but we haven't seen it, so to outright say it is just not true. And again, to compare Conor McGregor of four years ago to today's isn't even close. All you have to do is watch his fights.
3) And me personally, I think Conor beats everyone. Finishes all of them, I think he's the best in the world. But, it's the UFC that worries, and they have reason to. He has lost to what may be a weakness four years ago, and given their European fighters issues in the past, it just makes sense from a promotional standpoint.
And no, I don't think there's anything to expose. There may be, but I doubt it. You obviously disagree.
As a fight fan, for you to champion so much for protecting a fighter who would as you say "finish everyone", while not being an employee of the UFC, makes you sound pathetic. I watch to see the best fight the best. Not to see blatant favoritism and sheltered fighters. Everyone else has to fight there way up, and here you are acting like a Zuffa lawyer basing your argument as if you are expecting a cut off of Conor's success. Grow a pair of balls and demand the best fight the best. Even if Conor became Champion, which he won't anytime soon, it would come with an asterisk given the gifted path he was laid by management. Why not just give him the title Dana. Why not just take the title from Aldo and hand it to him yourself? UFC's intention can't be any clearer, and fans like you that support the corporate side of things in your arguments about a fighter make me sick. Munoz and Maia as much as you'd like to discredit them, exceed everyone on McGregor's win list.