I'm having trouble losing some more fat and leaning down a bit further and I'm wondering if I'm getting too few calories. I've been consuming about 1500-2000 calories a day with a lot of activity. I run 4-5x a week, boulder 3-5x and do general cardio or resistance workouts 4-6x a week, while working 40 hours or so on my feet.
Do you think that I should up my calories, or do you think that my occassional binge eating is holding off my results?
My stats: 5'8" 160lbs, 10% bf or so (estimated). Diet is vegan (environmental reasons, don't want a big argument about it) and I do not consume anything with "ose" on the end of it. My strength workouts are usually bodyweight, but sometimes heavy weights.
A few comments: Yes, up your calorie intake. Don't binge eat until you've achieved your goal.
A few questions:
Are you "ripped" with a full, clearly defined 6 pack, with no visible indication of "love handles" without pinching your side? If not, you're probably higher than 10%.
If you are this lean, are you prepping for an upcoming bodybuilding competition?
Age?
Do you make an effort to consume high BV complete proteins?
Can you describe your diet in more detail? (just saying "Vegan" is very ambiguous leaves a lot to the imagination. A diet of Froot loops, soy milk and ritz crackers is not ideal.)
Do you experience chronic lethargy?
The ripped thing- yes and no. No sign of love handles, but the abs are definitely smoother than I'd like. I'd go with your assumption that I'm probably higher than 10%, which is disappointing. My quest for low bf is strictly vain, and to help keep some weight off for bouldering. I am no where near pretty enough for a bodybuilding comp.
I'm 23 and I do not suffer from chronic lethargy.
My diet includes tofu, tempeh, seitan, rice protein shakes, wild rice, brown rice, quinoa, assorted beans, lots of veggies like kale, chard, brocolli, spinach, etc; potatos, sweet potatos, all kinds of fruit, almonds, almond butter, ezekial bread, fruit. If I'm eating out I like Indian, Thai, Japanese, that vein. That's the healthy part of it. I tend to indulge/overindulge in things like cereal, clif bars, crackers and other immediate carb rich food items when my body is screaming for it. Like I said before, I eat as organically as possible and haven't consumed foods containing high fructose corn syrup, corn syrup, dextrose, sucrose, and the like for over 6 years.
I do have a habit of binge eating, but after increasing my calories the urge to binge has subsided quite a bit.
PS: I didn't intend this thread to simply be a "please help me" thread, I was curious what the common consensus on the mininum required calories would be for most people, so discuss if you want...
I have no idea what the minimum amount of calories required is for most people. I've hoboed around on vacation on less than 1200 calories a day because I am too cheap to buy much food so I usually end up coming out of trips a bit skinnier, but not really more ripped.
What does your week look like in terms of food and workout duration/intensity? Do you drink much alcohol?
Depends how long you stay on the diet. If you kept your activity levels low and your protein way up you could probably get by on 1000 a week (provided you only did it for two weeks or so).
"My diet includes tofu, tempeh, seitan, rice protein shakes, wild rice, brown rice, quinoa, assorted beans, lots of veggies like kale, chard, brocolli, spinach, etc; potatos, sweet potatos, all kinds of fruit, almonds, almond butter, ezekial bread, fruit. If I'm eating out I like Indian, Thai, Japanese, that vein. That's the healthy part of it. I tend to indulge/overindulge in things like cereal, clif bars, crackers and other immediate carb rich food items when my body is screaming for it"
************I'd skip the seitan because it's a dense source of wheat gluten, gluten is highly estrogenic; estrogenic activity strongly correlates with sub-Q fat storage and depresses androgen levels. Higher androgen levels correlate with less abdominal fat.
Avoid high carb/high fat meals and substantial ingestion of highly refined carbs; this includes nearly all indian food (tastes great, but awful for body composition), almond butter sandwiches, americanized japanese food (added fat/sugar), thai etc. - most asian vegan foods will almost certainly be ultra-high in refined carbs (white rice, rice noodles), and donuts.
Saying "japanese food" is also very ambiguous; if you're talking about sembei, vegan sushi, tempura and japanese curry, it's not going to be good for your body comp. If you're talking about gobo or nato with brown rice, edamame, or miso with wakame, that's great.
I like John Berardi's material, and my personal experience agrees with him that high protein diets tend to work very well for most people when it comes to getting lean. The problem with vegan diets is that you have fewer sources of high BV protein to chose from. Many vegan protein sources are estrogenic.
Mike Mahler is vegan, he posts here on occaision, look up some of his articles. He follows a high fat, moderate carb/moderate protein diet, and seems to do well on it.
Personally, I would get excess sub-Q flab if I ate like he did. Everyone has a different phenotype; some handle macronutrient proportions better than others. You have to tweak your diet for you; none work optimally for everyone. Some people can tolerate high carbs, some don;t.
Obviously, the high carb/high fat diet you've been following isn't going to work. High carb/high fat/low protein diets don't tend to work for most people.
This is the main reason why I haven't discussed calories yet; it;s a very arbritrary number. If I ate a shitty diet, and just started starving myself in order to get lean, I'd lose a ton of muscle mass in the process and end up a skinny-yet-flabby guy. It's a lot easier to get and look lean when you have more substantial muscle mass beneath the skin. What you eat is just as important as caloris, if not moreso when body composition is concerned. There's also a wide range that varies with the individual, and as others have already pointed out, is greatly influenced by your activity levels.
Your calories for someone of your age will usually vary between 1500-3000 depending on your activity levels. You said very active, so it's almost certain to be on the higher end of the spectrum. However when you start grossly reducing calories below maintance, your body has a tendancy to slow its metabolism and ramp up catabolism. WHen you start eating more, metabolism picks up.
HERTSWENIP, thanks for the info; that's a great post. I appreciate it very much. I am disappointed I've been so far off, but I guess I'll just have to spend the next week or two doing some research.
Gatotwopointoh:
I drink no alcohol. Workouts are usually 30-45 min run in the mornings with my dog, bouldering workouts are 1 hour-1 1/2 hour unless I'm outdoors and I'll stay out for much longer.
My strength workouts are usually geared towards climbing fitness and are about an hour as well. The conditioning side is about 30-60 min depending on the day and involve plyometric circuits, general circuits, intervals, jump rope, sprints, whatever I'm feeling. Literally my whole workout regime is random, because it keeps me happy and entertained.
Daily nutrition before the calorie addition was something like this:
Breakfast: rice protein shake
Snack: Clif Builder Bar
Lunch: wild rice, tofu and brocolli or rice and beans with veggies
Snack: another clif bar, oat cake, cereal or AB sandwich (something like that)
Dinner: Thai food, more rice and tofu, pasta, or something along those lines
Snack: I don't always have another snack but sometimes its granola or just fruit or something like that
Sounds to me as though you're probably only getting about 25% of the protein you need and about twice the amount of carbs. If you have a layer of subcutaneous fat, then despite your claims of rigorous activity and calorie intake, you're eating too much. If you can't see your abs, but your waist is around 30-32 inches, then you're probably between 15 and 20% BF.
Go get a free fitday account and just enter everything you eat for a few days. Don't try to 'diet' or change anything but try to be as rigorous as possible. You'll get a breakdown and amount of fat, carbs and protein. Aim for about 100-150gms of carbs per day, 180-200gms of protein and 50-60gms of fat.
To find the required calories, multiply your weight by about 12 to 15. For 160lbs that's 1920-2400 cals/day. BUT, unless you carefully record what you're eating, including drinks, alcohol, condiments you will be low. If in doubt, read the label and note the serving size. Get a scale and weigh your protein sources until you get good at eyeballing.
Good luck.