More knowledge Ryron/Rener or Danaher?


Shen nails the correct like always

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in fairness Carlson was not stuck in the Gracie self defense stuff so much

For sure.

It’s primarily family members of the mainline Helio lineage that basically took a sacred vow to always teach the self-defense techniques, as is.

Every other aspect of jiu jitsu evolves and changes I guess, but the “self-defense” curriculum is absolutely PERFECT and must not be altered or questioned!


I’ve heard that. I’d rather have Renner or Ryron next to me if should SHTF.

I think Danaher is a genius who thinks out of the box and is not limited by the Gracie Jiu Jitsu traditions that Gracie family members are, but Gordon, Tonon and many of his top guys are physically superior athletes so is it his teaching or their attributes? Like Carlson, who’s majority of top guys were physical beasts but less technical ie: Sperry, Liborio, Bitteti, Vitor. He had a few smaller frame guys like De La Riva, Busta, etc. The Gracie’s were all about teaching your average guy to defend himself against a larger stronger opponent on the street or in Vale tudo not winning sport BJJ comps. Even Carlson rated MMA much more important than BJJ comps or no-gi.

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FYI, Danaher has an entire set of instructionals for no-gi as well as an entire set of instructionals for gi. I feel like his no-gi stuff may get more marketing b/c of his association with Gordan Ryan, etc…

Gordon is a superior athlete? In what sense? I don’t think I’ve seen him make an explosive movement in the past 5 years.

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The guard is so closely associated with BJJ that it’s become the defacto BJJ technique, if you will.

Lots of other arts have the same submissions, throws, takedowns, etc… Only BJJ has developed the guard(s) as extensively as an actual position. So when people do BJJ, they naturally gravitate towards what differentiates it from everything else.

It always seems to come back to Rolls though when you look at success in gi championships

When you consider that of his famous five black belts you have Alliance via ‘original’ Jacare and then Roger via Mauricio Gomes - and arguably his stated influence on Renzo leading to Danaher/Gordon…

And these are all two, three steps in the lineage - it’s not even like it’s long forgotten lineage that could be argued didn’t influence it directoy

Sperry not technical?



Im a huge Sperry fan along with Fabio Gurgel and Bustamante so I would not speak bad of him but he was super strong. Of that era of Carlson guys I thought Liborio and Busta were more technical

Heard Liborio was a gifted, technical master.

For a while he was talked about a lot as being the next best thing after Rickson.

I have watched the brothers’ videos and Danaher’s and Danaher is by far the most comprehensive of the bunch. As others have said, his mind is just intuitive to BJJ. Danaher is just a step above other professors IMO. He consistently provides those small tidbits of information that can level up your approach to even the most basic of techniques.

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Isn’t there a story about wrecking Arona after coming to training from his finance dayjob as a retired competitor when Arona was reigning ADCC champ or something

Never heard it but I’d believe it.

Dan Lambert on Liborio vs Marcelo Garcia:

“…you know if you ask me if those two competed in the gym in a friendly match at the gym and nobody was watching you know Liborio would win. If they competed in a tournament I’d put my money on Marcelo Garcia all day and you know Liborio probably would too.”

“…I remember being at the gym one day when Liborio was training with Jeff Monson and just submitting him 10 times in 5 minutes and then as soon as the match was over I said ‘hey Libo if you guys competed in the final of ADCC tomorrow what do you think would happen?’ He said Jeff would win two nothing.”


Great info . Dan Lambert had obviously seen it all . I think it’s fair to say he knows what he’s talking about . Thanks for that