12 - no,it takes lots of practice,its harder to hold mount then escape it..
i have to disagree. mount IMO is the hardest position to escape, you get someone with a good mount on you and youre fucked.
see rickson quote, argue with him
if the escape was easier than the attack people would never go to the mount, because it would be easy to escape. its considered , by most, to be the most dominant position because it is both difficult to escape and the top person has all the opportunity to attack.
yes rickson may have said that, as most from helio's side would say because they preach defense. but i think it is a different story in reality.. use royce vs hughes for example. sure it was back mount not top mount, but im sure rickson would say the same thing about the back that he is closer to escape than attack.
No.. the grapevine is great. I like to grapevine with 1 leg while I have a cross face and I bring my other knee up high under the shoulder...I can threaten ezekial or go directly into s-mount or mounted triangle from there.
I think a lot of guys get too committed to their submission (cross choke, americana, etc.) and end up getting put into guard or defending their own guard. You got to understand that the position is more important. Let it go, but be quicker to different attacks.
I do post my head to avoid the sweep like 12 mentioned earlier. The downside to that is that when your head goes down, it takes some pressure off the guy and he MIGHT be able to get back to half guard. The technique we were doing was based on this thought, hence the grapevine. We were practicing on finishing from mount. Thanks for the input guys.
try touching your feet and pointing toes to the sky,when he rolls go for a single hook and post with your knee and hand , keep it tight.jordan taught this at gracie barra today ,guys liked it.
try putting both hands in your belt and keeping the mount,its good practice,start with white belts and work your way up
maybe i dont know what the grapevine is,but if its wrapping my leg around his ,i could never get comfortable bringing my knee up to his shoulder,maybe im just short
I'm only 5'7" 135lbs... Yeah that's grapevining. grapevine with only 1 leg. The other knee up high and turn sideways a little like you're going to get s-mount... from there you can ezekial, americana, use the arm on the grapevining side to scoop under his elbow to get s-mount, etc..... If you are starting to lose mount, you can always grab his knee on the leg that you are grapevining and pull it up towards you.
Baroquen Record - actually this bring up a paradox of sorts in my mind... could Rickson escape his own mount?
My instructor asked Rickson this exact question. Rickson told him that even Rickson could not keep Rickson mounted. Rickson reasoned that he was always closer to the escape than he was to the attack. Defensive Rickson ALWAYS wins.
Yeah but I think anyone from Helios side would answer like that because of the emphasis they put on defense, especially escaping the mount. But I think in actuality it could be a different outcome <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>
Rickson also failed my instructor, as well as everyone else testing for purple, for having their guards passed. Rickson told them that a purple belt should never have their guard passed by a blue belt. Keep in mind, all of these guys were blues testing for purple. All of them failed, if only for having their guard passed once by a much bigger partner.
Baroquen Record - actually this bring up a paradox of sorts in my mind... could Rickson escape his own mount?
My instructor asked Rickson this exact question. Rickson told him that even Rickson could not keep Rickson mounted. Rickson reasoned that he was always closer to the escape than he was to the attack. Defensive Rickson ALWAYS wins.
Yeah but I think anyone from Helios side would answer like that because of the emphasis they put on defense, especially escaping the mount. But I think in actuality it could be a different outcome <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>
Rickson also failed my instructor, as well as everyone else testing for purple, for having their guards passed. Rickson told them that a purple belt should never have their guard passed by a blue belt. Keep in mind, all of these guys were blues testing for purple. All of them failed, if only for having their guard passed once by a much bigger partner.
Rickson couldn't pass Rickson's guard either.
Which is another paradox because if you can't pass the guard you in theory shouldn't be able to escape the mount
jrv - Try to step your feet on your opponent's hips and pinch the knees-keep the hands out wide. Your knees should be VERY high under the armpits and keep your chest low to create a suffocating feeling
^ Pirate, this guy knows his stuff; those are the keys right there ^
jrv - Try to step your feet on your opponent's hips and pinch the knees-keep the hands out wide. Your knees should be VERY high under the armpits and keep your chest low to create a suffocating feeling
^ Pirate, this guy knows his stuff; those are the keys right there ^
That is def a good high mount. Also if he's lifting his hips and bringing his legs up, all you've got to do is cup behind his head or crossface and just pull his head up...He can't get his hips and head up at the same time.
For me, the high mount is like the advantage of a high and tight closed guard before attacking; more targets in close range - less distance to travel - as in the arm lock, for example.
truehonor - For me, the high mount is like the advantage of a high and tight closed guard before attacking; more targets in close range - less distance to travel - as in the arm lock, for example.
really ,where to you place your hands for the arm bar if your sitting on his chess? from s mount i can see it.
getting you hands in for a choke is tough because your going straight dn.
just me $.02, a lot of it has been previously mentioned by 12 and a few others.
Stay in mount. The only position to advance from there is back control. I like what 12 said Jordan taught. I learned that similar control from a friend who did a Ryron seminar. I heard that concept 5years ago and still use it today to maintain the mount. The single leg grapevine, imo, should only be used when you're reacting to the hipbump not when they aren't doing anything. When you use grapevine and you're short(like me) it's difficult to finish a choke, plus you're stuck in one position without the ability to move into high mount.
As mentioned, when someone starts to upa/bridge up you hit the crossface the same side your opponent is upa/bridging from, drop the opposite side hip, opposite side foot puts the heel to the butt while lifting your knee off the mat. Your other hand reaches far out to give the solid base.
High mount, imo, is for transitioning to armbar. Aside from that I like floating at the hips for a couple of reasons. 1) it wears down your opponent and if they give up their back you're in range to drop in hooks. 2) there's that annoying hip in the air, legs around the body escape - when they cross it's difficult to maintain the mount. Giving your opponent that much movement in the hips(in any position), I think, is dangerous. You need to be constantly monitoring and controlling the hips.
Great advice by Delicious Bass about the foot flexing, too.
No.. the grapevine is great. I like to grapevine with 1 leg while I have a cross face and I bring my other knee up high under the shoulder...I can threaten ezekial or go directly into s-mount or mounted triangle from there.
I think a lot of guys get too committed to their submission (cross choke, americana, etc.) and end up getting put into guard or defending their own guard. You got to understand that the position is more important. Let it go, but be quicker to different attacks.
I do post my head to avoid the sweep like 12 mentioned earlier. The downside to that is that when your head goes down, it takes some pressure off the guy and he MIGHT be able to get back to half guard. The technique we were doing was based on this thought, hence the grapevine. We were practicing on finishing from mount. Thanks for the input guys.
If you have the choke try to dive your head to the mat about two feet past where you think you can actually get it. Creates a ton of pressure and lifts the chi. Also sort of sprawl out when you do this to prevent the upa.
truehonor - For me, the high mount is like the advantage of a high and tight closed guard before attacking; more targets in close range - less distance to travel - as in the arm lock, for example.
really ,where to you place your hands for the arm bar if your sitting on his chess? from s mount i can see it. getting you hands in for a choke is tough because your going straight dn.
If I am following you correctly and...if you insist on a conventional arm lock from the mount, how about you cross grip his elbow, place other hand on the jaw or just in front of his face - make him look the opposite- and you take the arm you trapped with the cross grip.. you are already on his chest, you have no need to place the hands there. Yes, there will be some S mount positioning, true. I don't know 12, I just like to know that traingle and triangle arm locks, americanas and kimura are all at ones' disposal, not to mention tucking the opponent's wrist under your arm pit for another two variations
