Right now I really enjoy rolling with the new guy because it lets me see how much I have progressed. I mean when I first came in I didn't know ANYTHING about BJJ, and this was only about a year and a half ago. I was probably the opposite of a spaz. I mean I really didn't even know the objective at first and for probably the first 2 months I would literally just stop at certain points because I had no idea what I was doing.
Now, I am a 3 stripe white (my coach says I am blue but he is waiting for his instructor to come into town to promote me.) and I really like when the new spazzes come in because even at my still a beginner level I can crush them and in all honesty, it feels good to see my own progress. I am sure this wears off more and more as I learn more and more but for now, I enjoy the new guys simply because I am not getting my ass kicked like usual.
I am to the point where generally a new guy comes in and I can not only have full control of him but also let him escape and try some things and practice my own escapes and technique. I guess it just gives me a taste of what to expect from an untrained guy in the streets, to an extent. I mean I know in the street it is much different but just drilling position with these guys that know nothing really shows that I have learned a lot and it feels good.
I also wanted to mention that my instructors keep a very close eye on new guys. If they are spazzing they will talk to them and if they don't chill out they usually get paired with a big purple belt we have followed by a huge brown belt we have. It is a pretty beautiful process actually that usually starts with my coach standing the guy up, pairing him with the purple belt/brown belt, and them giving eachother "the nod." After this they generally all kind of look at eachother and "the nod" is passed around and they basically just tool the guy. This is usually followed up by another talk with my coach and if needed, they are asked to leave unless they can relax and chill the fuck out and not try to kill their training partners. It absoloutley takes care of the spazzes, espescially the big guys that could easily hurt someone.
I like the new guys cause they're pretty mch the only people I can handle anymore I'm a sorry excuse fir a purple
This threads lived a lot longer than I thought it would.
I usually get the new guys because I am relaxed and don't mind the spazzing. It was the blatant disrespect and breaking the prearranged rules in conjunction with the spazzing that got to me. The guy may as well of broken out with the "your king fu no good here" line.
At any rate its neither hear nor there... most people are great and I don't begrudge anyone's spazzing.. its where most of us start.
At the end of the day I am just grateful to be practicing jiu jitsu.
just play your game like you are putting in no effort, stall and dominating them at the same time, that usually fixes new people.
I'm a one stripe white going into my 4th month of zhu zhitzu. I just like that I'm not the new guy anymore, plus it gives me some much needed perspective to see how far I've actually progressed since day 1.
I let them wear themselves down atop a knee on belly position. If they don't listen to you tell them to cool it you can easily force them to slow down without their consent by simply draining the life out of them.
To be honest, I was a pretty aggressive white belt at 17. I think leading by example is the best way.
HoldYerGround - I let them wear themselves down atop a knee on belly position. If they don't listen to you tell them to cool it you can easily force them to slow down without their consent by simply draining the life out of them.
To be honest, I was a pretty aggressive white belt at 17. I think leading by example is the best way.
This is what I do to bluebelts, mount and smother with my gi is for the whitebelts
telling a new guy not to go for subs seems very Rex Kwon Do - "grab my arm... no, the other arm... MY other arm"
let him try whatever he wants, just don't give him any opportunities to hurt you and roll as hard as you need to to show that you can tap him at any time.
It seems a common thing I suppose with previous practitioners of arts like Krav Maga to come in and say things like "well if elbows and knees to the balls were allowed". Also all new guys spaz.
What I do with a new guy is tell them "try whatever you think you know to do to hurt me or choke me without punching or kicking". I intentionally try not to tap them, yet don't let them have top position. I take them down, get on top and hold them there and make them tap from being dominated with position. I think it is much more demoralizing for a new guy to come in and be put on his back and get crushed for the entire time without being able to budge you over getting tapped 500 times. I mean what are they gonna walk out of that gym thinking they could do to you if you controlled them so well that they had to quit from exhaustion and you didn't even try to submit them?
jerky66 - This is why I am reluctant to roll with new guys these days. I used to roll with them when they asked but now I hesitate. I feel like it is a lose, lose situation. If I go easy on them and they go nuts I have to open a can of whoop ass on em. Then it makes me look bad because I am the experienced student. If I roll to easy with them they get a false sense of confidence and then go nuts later.
So true. I no longer let new guys roll their first few classes in my club. I've had a few not come back as a result. I simply don't care. I could get hurt, one of my students could get hurt or they might get hurt. What's the point? When I did let them roll I didn't notice any increase of student retention as a result.
Simply not worth the risk. This is 2011 not 1993.
on the flip side, i'm dealing w/ the white belt who has played professional sport a long time, is a carpenter/mason now via hsi family's business, HE IS PATIENT, and has silverback gorilla strength.
holy shit. he is the most difficult white belt ever.
he is stronger than most guys that wrestled their whole life.
Jayhof - It's your obligation to positively demonstrate the virtues of your art, your academy and reflect positively those of your instructor.
You should patiently listen. Instruct on the correct ways to train. Then, demonstrate the superiority of the style your are advocating.
My favorite way to handle these guys is to listen patiently, explain in soft voice, and tap them as much as possible using the least amount of force possible.... ;)
...... but then, I'm old, almost 50.....
Words of wisdom right there.
My coach gave me the nod on one guy who wasn't listening and I knee on bellied a smaller player for five minutes straight. One hand on collar, one hand on belt, knee stabbing into the solar plexus type stuff. I felt like he would break in half by the end of the round.
I guess you just have to literally torture some people until they listen or leave.
A training buddy is well known for rubbing the crap out of the newbies face with the sleeves of his HCK double weave. Damn thing is like sandpaper. Plenty of dick newbs end up almost glowing in the dark with hardcore gi-burn on cheeks and foreheads.
Art Corvelay - Amusing related note for this thread: I am getting unreasonably aggressive game from a bigger, stronger, much more talented high-level belt instructor. The kind of game that you reserve for a guy who is beating up on smaller guys, hurting people, or being a total dick. I wish that was the case, because it would make sense and be easy to change. Instead, I'm getting ridiculous crossface, knuckle in the jaw, lapel over face, RNC over jaw, etc. Part of it is on me for not tapping. I realize that if I simply tapped the instant it was initiated it would be clear, but I can't pay attention to the sign on the door and bring a little bit of ego.
I made the decision it wasn't worth my time, as the guy wasn't even cool enough to show me his technical game when I would inquire, giving terse "I don't knows" etc. I'm not new, and have never had a bad training partner in five years. This is a losing scenario no matter which way you play it, so I'll just stay out of the game. Of course, that's hard to do when the guy's teaching class and you spend four-minute rounds defending knuckle on jaw to open the neck as a result.
FWIW, I agree with not letting new guys roll from an instructor standpoint, but I have never complained about rolling with a new guy ever. Good opportunity to train with an unconventional opponent.
That's too bad. You sure its not just them respecting your game more and turning it up a notch. Did you just get promoted or something that would warrant the recent change? There are few rough guys at the gym that only have one speed and I enjoy that kind of sparring. Not everyday all day but going to the guy and gritting it out is good training. It helps me to realize bjj isn't unicorns and rainbows all the time.
snakepitz - My favorite 'calm down' move is the smother choke from mount
basically control his head with arm wrapped around it...use other arm to keep straight and smother using chest.
Feels like you are dying
Awesome - even though I am new I had a similar experience the other day. I am beginning to feel a sense of belonging at my school and there is a new student (coming for a couple weeks) that was loudly and obnoxiously talking in the waiting area (open to the mat area) about how much better the usa is than canada (we are in toronto), how tuition is cheaper, health care better, etc.
he was so loud, so so very loud that it was embarrassing. then in class bragging loudly as we were lining up about training 2x/day 4x a week. then we were told to form up to watch the technique and he wqas in the middle of the mat area where the technique is demonstrated and the instructor had to stop and say "oh ar eyou teaching class today?"
i couldnt believe that instead of being embarrasssed and getting the hint he goes "oh uh yeah yeah sure " in a goofy, loud and self entitled way.
the instructor, somewhat more annoyed but still smiling says "okay whats the first lesson" with his hand on his shoulder, obviously not impressed. the guy starts talking again and the instructo is just like "get back in line"/
anyways the guy is ridiuclous and i cant even look at him when he is proclaiming his stories loudly, swearing on the mats, etc...
he is a smaller guy probably 5'7 140-150 lbs. I am not a big guy either but a bit bigger at 5'9, 166lbs. keep in mind both of us are noobs - but IMO at least I have a concept of respect on the mat (for the school, the instructors, the art and fellow students).
So we have time to roll once before class ends and i end up with the American Douche Bag. We knuckle up and immediately he is flailing all over the place - completely nuts for someone who has already attended 3weeks X 4xs a week = 12 bjj classes.
Anyways to he is completely spazzing i have wrist control as we are still on our knees and you would have thought i had a hot poker on his ass, he was just expelling all his energy.
so i transtion to side control, crush with KOB and then to full side. I went to full mount and he starts bucking like i have never seen anyone buck. he was like a mechanical bull, so ridiculous - just bucking and bucking and bucking - he finally stops and i just inch up, keep the weight of my shoulder into his chest and not even 10 seconds later he taps.
so we go again, pretty much same replay - expect this time im in full mount, smothering and as i reach for his wrist for americana he taps as i touch his wrist.
i would be lying to say i didnt get satisfaction out of this. at the same time i do feel somewhat bad for not suggestion that he pace himself. i think he should get the BJJ University book and read the whitebelt section on survival.
what do you think of the way i handled it? i was never rude to him, I didnt hurt him, nor was I rough. but i certainly didnt make suggestions and i did kind of try to teach him a lesson... ( i know "lesson" from a white belt is lol worthy)
Baroquen Record - yeah youre a dick but w/e its not like hes gonna last more than a month anyway.
how often do guys show up and leave on average? just curious
uberpinscher -Baroquen Record - yeah youre a dick but w/e its not like hes gonna last more than a month anyway.
how often do guys show up and leave on average? just curious
At our gym its hard to say...
It seems like we always have 5 new people a class. Of those I generally see maybe 5 or so stick around long enough for me to notice that they are starting to be regular ( probably after 6 weeks or so before I notice new white belts). So with some schwag I would say 1 out of 5 or so stick around longer than a month. Out of that group maybe 1/2 stick around longer than 6 months. Anyone that sticks around that long generally stays until they get a blue belt.
After blue belt we lose a lot of guys again. I think the loss after blue belt is because the guys that are motivated by getting belts get discouraged.
The reason we train is for fun and self improvement. Don't get sucked into this crap. Every gym has these types of people - face it you won't like everyone. The way I found best to deal with this is to be calm and be direct. Explain the rules and your desire to hear nothing about strikes. If the guy continues to be an idiot. Excuse yourself and say take care