With the rise of MMA and Judoka turned MMA fighters, it seems to me that a good "facelift" for Judo would be to focus on the no-gi application of judo. I know that there the Karos/Fedors/Dong Hyun Kims/Akiyamas of the world have done a good job representing Judo as it applies to MMA.
What about No-Gi Judo Competitions? If the rules were changed to get rid of the gi, it would force the evolution of throws and sweeps without the gi. Could be interesting, and you might see a lot more of the techniques in MMA and other avenues. Maybe it would increase the popularity of Judo in the US?
The top judo athletes focus on (gi) judo only. The same quesiton has been asked why top judo players don't do BJJ. The sport of judo on an international level is at such a highly competitive level that you have to focus on inter national competitions, rankings, points and experience. The promotion of Judo in the USA is so difficult with all the competition from BJJ/No-gi (naga)events that we have to stick with what we know. Also, many of the judo sensei's do not believe in mma/no gi as it pertains to judo. It is also true as to why top BJJ world class players/no gi fighters do not compete in world class judo. Competition is too strong and would not fair well. Locally they would do fine.
Good response.
most of the top judoka in the country have been very successful wrestlers at a variety of level. in the last Olympic Trials there were a few athletes who had offers to wrestle D-1 and turned them down to do judo instead. Also, the vast majority of the men were at least state-qualifiers in their home states in wrestling or all-conference+ in football or another sport.
it isnt a question IF judo can be successful without a gi... it is only a question on IF it is worthwhile for USA Judo to sanction such events. how would the best judokas do in freestyle or greco wrestling? probably pretty well, less so at the top levels of folkstyle because of how takedowns are scored in comparison to throws.
Olympic Judo worldwide is doing more than fine...We definitely don't need no-gi competitions to attract idiotic wannabe MMA fighters.
In the US, judo probably needs help. A friend of mine, when he was there, said also that the quality of most clubs is low and the distances between clubs is huge, so its hard to jump from club to club. Perhaps judo needs more volume there...more good coaches, more dojos, more regional tournaments, etc.
I wonder if Judo in USA can learn from soccer in US. Soccer did huge improvements there. I guess it became an NCAA sport as well. Can't judo become an NCAA sport ? Isn't it kind of strange that one of the most popular individual sports in the world is not an NCAA sport ?
Once you have more kids sticking with judo between 16-19, they will keep going...
Great responses. I guess Olympic Judo is where the money is, so to speak for Judo. It's intersting how the sport has really shpaed the focus and emphasis on the discpline of Judo. I still would love to see more Judo takedowns in MMA. LOVE to see KO via throw...(I know, I know the mats too soft, but I am still somewhat obsessed with the idea)
"Olympic Judo worldwide is doing more than fine...We definitely don't need no-gi competitions to attract idiotic wannabe MMA fighters."
I'm going to remark on this quote itself, and not necessarily towards the man who wrote it..
Why are those who want to train to fight or for submission..."idiotic wanabe mma fighters"?
This stuffy ass holier than thou attitude makes me ill.
They are on a path just like you..You do judo a disservice by shunning people!!! Judo is a way. These are all sports in which judo can be learned, utilized and spread to tohers..
I have always hated this attitude about judoka..
It limits how many people judo can reach, it promotes a heirarchy and goes against the principle of mutual benefit and welfare, and it is just plain close minded.
Now Im not saying sport judo needs anything..It is it's own entity..But dont be so pro sport judo that you become anti-judo.
Hey TJ,
really, i think no-gi judo competition is not the way to spread judo further, at least not in EU...where I trained..guess what..at least 2x a week we did no-gi (no top) judo...its just part of the training process...Judo is very popular, also because it has a set of fixed rules, and structure, which parents like. They see this as a quality system where their child can grow, at least up to some age. What we need is more judo centers with more quality coaches in countries where judo is less developed. Introduce the system to the parents and let their child grow there. The last thing we want is parents to associate judo with MMA right now...most parents today don't exactly think MMA has a clean image...and it doesn't matter what we think about that...
I dont like the way you equate mma with immoral.
And if parents think that, parents are uneducated..
I believe only through the training can we change that.
I have 8 year old girls here training No gi Judo/MMA..
Their parents love it and see it for what it is..
Something that gives them realistic self defense, self discipline,a moral compass and physical fitness.
We cant educate the masses by hiding what we do..
Kano did the same thing, in a political climate that demanded it..It is no longer this way.
good post!
"how would the best judokas do in freestyle or greco wrestling? probably pretty well"
What does pretty well mean?
Within the USA, pretty well means that several of them would stand a good chance of qualifying for the US Olympic Trials in freestyle or Greco. beyond that, it is impossible to quantify.
outside of the USA, you'd be asking the exact opposite question.
TrainJudo - I dont like the way you equate mma with immoral.
And if parents think that, parents are uneducated..
I believe only through the training can we change that.
I have 8 year old girls here training No gi Judo/MMA..
Their parents love it and see it for what it is..
Something that gives them realistic self defense, self discipline,a moral compass and physical fitness.
We cant educate the masses by hiding what we do..
Kano did the same thing, in a political climate that demanded it..It is no longer this way.
Q, while I respect your opinions, I do think you are putting words in the man's mouth. He didn't say that MMA is immoral, but that it has a bad reputation in some parent's eyes.
Now, you and I can "educate" parents all we want about the sport of MMA, and how "no-gi judo" is a wonderful system. But, all that is quickly drowned out by them turning on the television, and what do they see for MMA? To put it bluntly, they see a bunch of young men, barely out of college age, all with a bunch of pathetic, identical "individual" tattoos, all looking exactly the same with shaved or very close cropped hair with possibly a short goatee or two day stubble, and usually acting like a bunch of idiotic fratboys. Either that, or they see older men (who should know better), doing the exact same fucking thing.
It's the TUF factor, man. And to be honest, no amount of "educating" parents is going to overcome it.
Honestly, while when I have kids I will want them in judo, it would be a minimum until their high school years before I introduce them to MMA/subgrappling. You can disagree with me, but taking one look at this site, and the "quality" of the majority of the UG members, advertisements, etc, and I wouldn't want a child anywhere near this atmosphere until they were much, much older.
"He didn't say that MMA is immoral, but that it has a bad reputation in some parent's eyes."
It was implied. And, It does not have a "bad reputation".
"To put it bluntly, they see a bunch of young men, barely out of college age, all with a bunch of pathetic, identical "individual" tattoos, all looking exactly the same with shaved or very close cropped hair with possibly a short goatee or two day stubble, and usually acting like a bunch of idiotic fratboys. Either that, or they see older men (who should know better), doing the exact same fucking thing."
I choose not to be so judgemental on appearances...What I see are men bettering their lives..Professional athletes like any other.
"It's the TUF factor, man. And to be honest, no amount of "educating" parents is going to overcome it."
I disagree..And so the parents of the children I teach..The families of my other students..And my students are very diverse in look, age, race, weight, political views, fields of employment, etc, etc..
"Honestly, while when I have kids I will want them in judo, it would be a minimum until their high school years before I introduce them to MMA/subgrappling. You can disagree with me, but taking one look at this site, and the "quality" of the majority of the UG members, advertisements, etc, and I wouldn't want a child anywhere near this atmosphere until they were much, much older."
I dont hide the world from my children. They live in this world..Not one of make believe that I conjure up to shelter their view, only for them to find out later,the hard way, what it is really like... I will let them do what they enjoy and what helps make them better people. I will encourage them to do those things..MMA, submission, no gi judo, etc training will do nothing but good things for children.
Q,
you and I are going to have to disagree on a few of these issues. For instance, you feel MMA does not have a bad reputation. I feel MMA has a reputation on the same level as Pro Wrestling, and this is coming from a guy who trained at Greg Jackson's for a year. The average person has little respect for it.
As for professional athletes trying to better themselves, come off the high horse man. The only betterment most of the pros are trying to make is that of their bank account. Now, this is pervasive in all professional sports, from boxing to baseball, but that doesn't make it right.
As for hiding the world from your children, there is a difference between "hiding the world", and not protecting your own children. Children do not have the mental faculties to handle the things adults can. That is why children cannot get driver's licenses, or drink, or smoke tobacco. I do not plan on my children being "ignorant", but that doesn't mean I would knowingly let them place themselves in a bad place either. With the amount of drugs, sexualization, and overall asshattery that I have seen from this board and the MMA community, I will keep my kids in the "sheltered" world of "regular" judo until their minds are matured enough to deal with the situation.
"The average person has little respect for it."
This isnt 1998, its 2008 and perceptions are changing and have changed! The Average person has alot of respect for the fighters..You think Randy Couture is looked down upon? Forrest Griffin? What are you smoking?
"As for professional athletes trying to better themselves, come off the high horse man. The only betterment most of the pros are trying to make is that of their bank account."
Ridiculous..There are a million other ways to make money far easier, that requires far less effort, dedication and hard work. Just how many fighters you think make more than a lower middle class income?
"With the amount of drugs, sexualization, and overall asshattery that I have seen from this board and the MMA community, I will keep my kids in the "sheltered" world of "regular" judo until their minds are matured enough to deal with the situation."
Again you are being absolutely ridiculous..Those things are in all of life..To say they are in mma? No shit, they are also in baseball, basketball, football, your church, your neighbors house, down the street, at your kids school and everywhere else. INCLUDING your cue the lights from the heavens and religious music judo dojo...Singling out mma is just ridiculous.
TrainJudo - "The average person has little respect for it."
This isnt 1998, its 2008 and perceptions are changing and have changed! The Average person has alot of respect for the fighters..You think Randy Couture is looked down upon? Forrest Griffin? What are you smoking?
"As for professional athletes trying to better themselves, come off the high horse man. The only betterment most of the pros are trying to make is that of their bank account."
Ridiculous..There are a million other ways to make money far easier, that requires far less effort, dedication and hard work. Just how many fighters you think make more than a lower middle class income?
"With the amount of drugs, sexualization, and overall asshattery that I have seen from this board and the MMA community, I will keep my kids in the "sheltered" world of "regular" judo until their minds are matured enough to deal with the situation."
Again you are being absolutely ridiculous..Those things are in all of life..To say they are in mma? No shit, they are also in baseball, basketball, football, your church, your neighbors house, down the street, at your kids school and everywhere else. INCLUDING your cue the lights from the heavens and religious music judo dojo...Singling out mma is just ridiculous.
Dude, now you're just being obtuse. I have never, ever seen a girl with fake breasts, stripper heels, and a pink bikini strutting around a judo mat before a match. Unless they run shit different in the States since I left.
"Within the USA, pretty well means that several of them would stand a good chance of qualifying for the US Olympic Trials in freestyle or Greco. beyond that, it is impossible to quantify."
Interesting. According to Big D, Ishii was handled quite easily when he showed up for wrestling practise. And while Japan is quite good in both greco and freestyle at 140lbs or less and the womens division. They are no force at heavier weights. While Ishii is the best judoka on the planet right now
"Dude, now you're just being obtuse. I have never, ever seen a girl with fake breasts, stripper heels, and a pink bikini strutting around a judo mat before a match. Unless they run shit different in the States since I left."
They do that in about EVERY pro and amatuer sport..basketball and football have cheerleaders..Boxing has ring girls, etc...Are you seriously afraid for your children to see a ring girl? maybe you can instead point out that there are also women like Gina Carano (who is a huge role model for my young girls here)..
"While Ishii is the best judoka on the planet right now"
Best sport judoka maybe..There are judoka with a much better style for mma...Like akiyama, karo, fedor, etc...
BTW, this first girl in the playboy spread here, she is a JUDOKA. An Olympic judoka at that..
So as you can see, your finger pointing at mma is completely unwarranted.