Which is better? Why? I happen to be a fan of old school gi based vale tudo BJJ because I train for self defense...
what? you think marcello garcia couldnt defend himself?
every sport progresses. i prefer to be at the front of that progression, not the back.
advances are made for a reason (cause they work), so i wouldnt ignore them
how do you think george mikan would do in the nba today with his skill set and style of play vs. shaq
"you think marcello garcia couldnt defend himself?" You pick the exception not the rule... marcello is a champion whos life is BJJ... I am speaking from the view point of someone looking to improve self defense skills...
"how do you think george mikan would do in the nba today with his skill set and style of play vs. shaq" This is not a valid point... as we are not discussing basket bal...
checkuroil, why would you use Marcelo as an example? He, Jacare, and Roger all say they train with the gi 5 days a week and only 1 day without. and that was in preperation for the abudabhi. Marcelo could definately defend himself, and in no small part, because of his jiu-jitsu gi training.
besides Honkey isn't talking about sport, he says he's talking about self defense.
Train whatever you want, but why not just answer the man's question and say what you prefer and why.
I prefer not to choose. A little with gi, a little without. I'm interested in learning how to manipulate grips with clothing, and I'm interested in learning how to use jiu-jitsu for mma. so both.
the main difference is the approach taken to the art.
Old school, is a much tighter game, and they focus more on self defense. Ie, all of the technique taught is taught from the standpoint that you could be getting punched, kicked, elbowed from that position. And the technique is mostly taught to help avoid AND counter aganist that.
New School is much more sport oriented. A lot of open guard, spider guard ect ect.
As someone who actually does a lot of both I can say that they both have their hi and low points. A old school jj guy has a very hard time winning in Bjj tournies, new school is hard to transition into the MMA scent or street defense.
Its good to have a mixture of both, New school teaching some things that would allow you to escape difficult positions, some new sweeps to use ect ect but its best to have a very solid understanding of old school before trying to become very good as new school. The basics are what save your ass.
um, this isnt a gi vs. no gi thread. its old school vs. new school.
"checkuroil, why would you use Marcelo as an example? "
cause he epitomizes the new school of jiu jitsu with his style.
"He, Jacare, and Roger all say they train with the gi 5 days a week and only 1 day without."
again, this is old school vs. new school
"but why not just answer the man's question and say what you prefer and why. "
dumbass, do you not know how to read i said i "prefer". i think that expresses my preference.
"I prefer not to choose. A little with gi, a little without. I'm interested in learning how to manipulate grips with clothing, and I'm interested in learning how to use jiu-jitsu for mma"
you missed the whole point of this thread.
New school = better guard passing and maintaining position, Old school = better finishing and self-defense (e.g. against punches). Old school is better for anyone who isn't going to compete, new school for those who want to compete.
"I prefer not to choose. A little with gi, a little without. I'm interested in learning how to manipulate grips with clothing, and I'm interested in learning how to use jiu-jitsu for mma"
"you missed the whole point of this thread."
Correct, old school and new school have NOTHING to do with wearing or not wearing a gi.
There are PLENTY of New School style jj who wear a gi (Garcia for one)
All that being said Checkuroil, I wouldn't say that 10th planet is new school by any means. Most of the technique taught still keeps you in mind that you can be getting struck from that position, and uses that to an advantage in getting grips, hooks ect ect.
Nice post Einux
"You mean like what happened to judo? "
i am not a judo historian, explain
"You mean like what happened to judo? "
"i am not a judo historian, explain"
Judo started out as a self defense art, and when comp became really big rules were put into the tournaments (ie scoring system ect ect)
Eventually Judo became an art of being totally sport oriented.
Thanks Honkey
i think the camarillo brothers can handle themselves just fine in a brawl.
"i think the camarillo brothers can handle themselves just fine in a brawl. " Again your point is not valid, you are picking top preformers who train consistently... I am speaking from the view point of someone looking to improve self defense skills...
fine, i think a judo brown belt would do fine in the streets.
also, you are speaking in extremes. its not like people are going to a school and learning all new crazy techniques with none of the old school stuff.
"i think the camarillo brothers can handle themselves just fine in a brawl."
Thats a little different, they trained under Ralph Gracie for christ sakes. Can't say more old school than (please read) G-R-A-C-I-E
"fine, i think a judo brown belt would do fine in the streets."
Except if he ended up on his back he would simple give up his back and go into the "Judo Turtle" position, (flat on your stomach, legs out, and arms under you and hands around your neck) and would then wait for the reff to yell "break"
Meanwhile there opponent stands up and stomps their brains out.
other than that yea, they would do just fine.
Saying things like "Marcello Garcia could defend him self just fine" is really pointless. Marcello is a top level professional grappler, of course he can defend himself.
If Marcello Garcia grew up in 1950s brazil and learned BJJ back then and trained just as hard as he does now, I am sure he would be able to defend himself then too.
The real question is, if you take a person and teach them oldschool BJJ and another similar person, new school BJJ, which one would do better in self defense?
"The real question is, if you take a person and teach them oldschool BJJ and another similar person, new school BJJ, which one would do better in self defense? "
the person who is more athletic and had more fight experience
old school, because self defense is what it is oriented around.
im a fan of most older things but when it comes to bjj or mma new is always better