"Let's pretend this throw would finish you in real life..."
I have used Judo in real life maybe 6 or 7 times and here where i work maybe 30. They ALL ended the fight of the individual being thrown. Life does not have many mats available.
And the worst technique i have ever seen used in any comp including the foam pad leagues is jumping to guard.
Bush Hog beat me to it. The guy he's referring to has never been thrown hard on a mat, much less a hard floor or ground. Entire thread moot until this individual visits his local YMCA for some good hard randori.
Larry
But to address Jase's original post, I myself, as a I judoka would prefer they allow for more time on the ground (in the old days, you had much more time) but its like the UFC implementing rounds, etc.
Its a hard balance between "purity" of the sport and spectator friendliness.
>> "Let's pretend this throw would finish you in real life...Ippon!" "Let's pretend pinning your back to the ground for 10,20, or 25 seconds would cause you to lose a fight in the real world." It just is too aritficial for me. I concede that one could extend my argument and say that BJJ is artificial too because who in the street is going to actually even know how to tap? My counter to this is that the 'object' of BJJ is to finish the opponent by making them give up... that is the point real fights. <<
Judo is a sport developed from a REAL MARTIAL art, i.e., it was originally an art to assist foot soldiers in medieval WARfare. You don't fight wars ``in the street.''
Oh yes, watching someone jump guard and 'wear down' their opponents for 20 minutes is much more exciting....
Judo is beautiful to watch and is way more pragmatic than BJJ IHMO.
TTT 4 JUDO!!
"They are all highlights and the comentator is Neil Adams (the same guy that armlocked Royce Gracie into oblivion.) "
When did Adams armlock Geacie?
I LOVE the throws. And the grip fighting. And the quick movements.
It's the damn stopping that pisses me off.
"Judo is a SPORT developed from a real martial art"
True, it was created by Kano from jujitsu!
Judo is less technical than jiu-jitsu. Jiu Jitsu contains all the techniques of Judo plus! Judo awards points, partial points, and near partial points for positions and pins. Jiu jitsu awards points only for established positions.
Myoptic... true true. But not apologetic! I have seen too many Judo black belts get punked at their own game by very novice bjj players and wrestlers.
Regardless, I am glad it is in the olympics and I root for Rhadi because he is a badass at both judo and jiu jitsu!
Oh, and for those who have used Judo successfully in the street "or at work" congrats, bet you weren't throwing a martial artist. Wasn't Remco Pardue(sp?) in the early UFC a Judo guy?
The standard of Blackbelts varies alot
lets see these blue belts throw the judoka
"Oh, and for those who have used Judo successfully in the street "or at work" congrats, bet you weren't throwing a martial artist."
Likewise to BJJ application, actually. With about 1-2% of the current population in the USA are active martial arts, I really think the odds are not.
What's really embarrasing is when you lose to someone who doesn't train.
"To me, watching judo compared to watching jiu-jitsu is like watching RINGS compared to watching PRIDE"
How do you mean?
RINGS KOK were possibly the most exiting event to take place (ZST is cool too), because there was no stalling in case of being G'n'P'ed.
Judo is cool becasue the submissions have to be quick if they are to work (like real life), esp. at Olympic level.
sswturtle is right that's why judo worlds and olympics are full of bjj and wrestlers grabbing heaps of gold for their conuntries. Ohh wait. No straight BJJers in olympics at all. And surprisingly wrestlers stick with their own thing.
There are no time limits on the ground in "Olympic" Judo. The rule is progress towards a technique being applied.
However,not all referees, even at the highest levels, call it that way. Some don't know much if any groundwork, some don't like it, some are both.
And sometimes honest refs. who know groundwork make a mistake.
Ben R.
"Oh, and for those who have used Judo successfully in the street "or at work" congrats, bet you weren't throwing a martial artist. Wasn't Remco Pardue(sp?) in the early UFC a Judo guy?"
...I don't really know how to gauge this stupidity. I've seen a lot of no-gi judo throws in Pride and even Karo in the UFC had some. What you're trying to say is that someone who practices throwing against OTHER TRAINED judokas all day couldn't throw a boxer or karate practitioner? Unintelligence runs rampant. And obviously one example makes everything true. Remember when Don Frye knocked out that BJJ guy? This obviously means that wrestling will always beat BJJ. sigh
12am most weeknights
well sport judo is no less 'realistic' than sport BJJ
Making a diatribe against judo newaza makes about as much sense as a diatribe against bjj standup
I will post my take on that...
I watched Judo yesterday and will do it today - it could be a great olympic martial art but now it makes me really sad...I am judging the sport and its rules based on what happens in a real fight...
First the Judo standup rules totally suck...the whole ippon-thing is based on the idea of a perfect slam-throw and you basically see very few such throws at the high level...
1)
half of the times judoka throw they give away their back... ok the other guy falls on their back with the hooks in and voila you still get the ippon but actually in real situation when the fight would continue they would have given away their back and with no damage done...
2) Secondly:
they do not require clean throws anymore which is plain stupid - what I mean by that is that you can throw someone and fall together with him and and get rolled over, end up on your back and still get the ippon or any other score...ippon should imo be scored only on perfect fight-ending throws which mean that the thrower would stay standing after the throw...all others could give score but then the ground combat would continue..
in this part bjj standup rules are much realistic - you have to take someone down and end up on top to get the points - if you end up on bottom after your throw your opponent gets the points... if you end up giving your back your opponent gets the points... much more realistic rules IMO
The ground rules are even worse...
I cannot understand not allowing kimura... ok ban footlocks but why ban ude-garami?
This apart, the whole idea of a pin is just absurd - a pin doesn´t equal with striking from the top, pin is nothing in a real fight. And pins are really the most important reason behind judo ground boringness and noone working for subs from top and everyone turning turtle or pancake from bottom. If they would remove pins people would actually start defending the bottom position and escaping which is a necessary skill in a real fight and the top guy would actually start working for submissions and a quick kill which is also an important skill in a real fight.
But with the present rules everyone just turtles and defends there til the restart. And the judodefense in turtle is pretty tight - when I have rolled with judo black and brown belts I have tapped them from guard or mount - never from backmount cause they have good defense there. From a real fights perspective - I would punch and elbow them to the back of the head or side of the face in MMA.
Lastly guard and passing are totally sucking due to the "lift the back off the ground rule"...
I am totally sure that a lot of judoka are really good at newaza but I am only judging what I see in Olympics right now and 1) it is boring and the stopping is really annoying 2) it is ineffective from a standpoint of a real fight
To ruin a good sport just because of tv broadcasts??? And still the matches run for 5 minutes each but with more stoppage which equals more time spent. Why not allow 5 minute nonstop action as in BJJ?
BJJ rules are much better considering the viewpoint of the real fight on the ground - of course BJJ doesn´t favor standup but that is why there is clinch and striking right...
Indrek
i think the whole idea about Judo matches is control rather than finishing. when you throw someone you exert a certain amount of control over that of his on you. when you pin someone you extert near complete control of your opponent. in both cases you make the opponent obey your will.
with the exception of MMA i dont think its fair to judge any sport match/fight by realistic standards.