Instead of arguing this over and over, why doesn't someone do a copy/paste of the rulebook section that backs up their side and we can end this "discussion"...just a thought 
Lots of fighters do the same thing and hold the lead hand out like jones does. But unless there is a rule change it isn't changing anytime soon. 
Treadstone06 - Instead of arguing this over and over, why doesn't someone do a copy/paste of the rulebook section that backs up their side and we can end this "discussion"...just a thought
Correct... On several threads where people are crying how cheap Jones is by stiff arming his opponents, I've asked if they can provide any proof it is illegal.
I don't believe it is which is why he was able to continue to do it as long as he didn't eye poke Glover anymore.
http://www.ufc.com/discover/sport/rules-and-regulations
Here are the unified rules. Obviously, eye gouging is not allowed. Cupping someone's head or posting against their face is NOT illegal. And once again, it IS a legit technique in boxing and muay thai whether or not you agree with me.
jitzophrenic -
http://www.ufc.com/discover/sport/rules-and-regulations
Here are the unified rules. Obviously, eye gouging is not allowed. Cupping someone's head or posting against their face is NOT illegal. And once again, it IS a legit technique in boxing and muay thai whether or not you agree with me.
It's illegal in boxing.
indianrob - Jones uses unique techniques that people don't usually see from other fighters. So when they do see it, there blind hate for Jones makes them think it's illegal. Case in point his completely legal front knee kick.Not illegal but still a little bitch kick
RampageFitsLikeAGlove -Like I said on the other thread...this will be your 'get out of jail free' card.Treadstone06 - Instead of arguing this over and over, why doesn't someone do a copy/paste of the rulebook section that backs up their side and we can end this "discussion"...just a thought
Correct... On several threads where people are crying how cheap Jones is by stiff arming his opponents, I've asked if they can provide any proof it is illegal.
I don't believe it is which is why he was able to continue to do it as long as he didn't eye poke Glover anymore.
"Show me where it says you CAN'T do that"
Keeping your hand in someone's face isn't illegal as long as you don't poke their eye. Great.
It's just another cheap loophole that Jones and Jackson can and will exploit. Yay.
Sad thing is...jones is an awesome fighter who doesn't have to resort to these 'grey area' tactics to win, yet he does. I guess they need a backup plan in effect just in case.
If Big Jon reffed that fight, it never would've been an issue. He always warns fighters to close their hands. It's not really Jon's fault. It's the result of sparring with boxing gloves and the ref fucking up.
What needs to happen is better gloves, better refs and a better training glove for MMA.
Jones via in his element. Beautiful.
Doing a gif search on Sherdog.... apparently either the only major MMA site with sack enough to allow them or Zuffa has OK'd it.
There's a thread showing 10 eye pokes committed by JJ. Twice in the Machida fight, twice against both Shogun and Rampage, three times against Gus and once on Rashad. That's just the ones shown.
RampageFitsLikeAGlove -sekundarburnes - except when your outstretched hand pokes someone in the eye
So tell me the difference between the 2 below scenarios. In a 5 round fight....
Fighter A: Throws 30 leg kicks and 2 go high and hit his opponents groin. Fighter is warned that he will lose a point if it happens again.
Jones: Stiff arms opponent's face/head 30 times over the course of the fight and twice his fingers happen to go in an eye. He is warned a point will be deducted if it happens again.
There is a difference, albeit a subtle one.
Jon's intent when putting his hand (and fingers) in someone's face is to obscure their vision. He in effect is targeting the eyes even though he's not intending to poke them. A fighter throwing a leg kick is not targeting his opponent's groin.
Secondly, an eye poke is potentially a much more serious injury than a groin kick (remember, they wear a cup, they don't have eye protection).
indianrob - Jones uses the out stretched hand to create and judge distance and his use of it is completely legal. On 2 occasions while using this technique he accidentally eye poked Glover which is illegal and jon was warned for it. It doesn't make the move illegal. Why can't you people understand this. Or are your sandy vag's not allowing you to understand.The point is if it keeps accidentally happening you need to stop doing it. Imp points should be taken after the first warning in all infringements. For example :low blows, eye pokes, grabbing the fence, grabbing shorts etc
easedel -This is a huge problem in MMA. You basically only see the top two refs warning guys to close their hands. Meanwhile the gloves make it very easy to paw with an open hand, like boxing. So three things need to happen.VinegarStrokes - Lots of fighters do the same thing and hold the lead hand out like jones does. But unless there is a rule change it isn't changing anytime soon.
Which is the problem with MMA at the time being. Its trying to put itself out there as one of the top sports like MLB NFL etc but when you have half assed rules, idiotic judging and refs that don't enforce things..its always going to be 2nd tier
And that is a shame
Refs need to warn fighters more, let them know they're doing something wrong, then, the MMA glove needs to be a bit more curved in to encourage closing a fist. Thirdly, they need to eliminate boxing gloves from MMA training. Pawing at your opponent with a relaxed fist while wearing a boxing glove is very safe. That's the problem though, MMA fighters get used to boxing gloves. In reality, MMA fighters should never train with boxing gloves. Someone needs to engineer a safer MMA training glove
kevsh -RampageFitsLikeAGlove -sekundarburnes - except when your outstretched hand pokes someone in the eye
So tell me the difference between the 2 below scenarios. In a 5 round fight....
Fighter A: Throws 30 leg kicks and 2 go high and hit his opponents groin. Fighter is warned that he will lose a point if it happens again.
Jones: Stiff arms opponent's face/head 30 times over the course of the fight and twice his fingers happen to go in an eye. He is warned a point will be deducted if it happens again.
There is a difference, albeit a subtle one.
Jon's intent when putting his hand (and fingers) in someone's face is to obscure their vision. He in effect is targeting the eyes even though he's not intending to poke them. A fighter throwing a leg kick is not targeting his opponent's groin.
Secondly, an eye poke is potentially a much more serious injury than a groin kick (remember, they wear a cup, they don't have eye protection).
I hear ya but it seems what you're saying is there needs to be a rule change then. My point wasn't necessarily the intent but that both Fighter A and Jones are performing 'legal' moves during the fight which sometimes happen to lead to illegal moves. Jones pawing at his opponent to obscure vision or judge distance is not illegal, but yes he needs to be more careful and watch the eye pokes. However, just like throwing a kick and hitting the groin or throwing a knee and hitting the groin, it's easy to miss your target in the middle of a fight with your opponent moving all over the place.
He paws with his hand spread wide open, it is a very dangerous move. If he stiff armed with his fingers touching like a football stiff arm, (as to make sure none of your fingers get broken off) the eye pokes wouldn't occur. He knows what he is doing, and it isn't a very sporting thing.
Glover would've been poked in the eye 10 times if HE didn't adjust what he was doing to NOT INJURY HIS EYES. And there's a difference between an accidental eye poke and a guy blatantly sticking his arm straight out and keeping it there with his fingers open...over and over again. Jones is one of the only fighters douchey enough to actually fight like that.
RampageFitsLikeAGlove -So what if he lost a point he would still have won. Also the two that went in his eyes glover was audible about it. He would obviously speak up expect ally knowing he could get a point out of it. It never poked him in the eye after the first roundsekundarburnes - except when your outstretched hand pokes someone in the eye
So tell me the difference between the 2 below scenarios. In a 5 round fight....
Fighter A: Throws 30 leg kicks and 2 go high and hit his opponents groin. Fighter is warned that he will lose a point if it happens again.
Jones: Stiff arms opponent's face/head 30 times over the course of the fight and twice his fingers happen to go in an eye. He is warned a point will be deducted if it happens again.
Rival School -RampageFitsLikeAGlove -So what if he lost a point he would still have won. Also the two that went in his eyes glover was audible about it. He would obviously speak up expect ally knowing he could get a point out of it. It never poked him in the eye after the first roundsekundarburnes - except when your outstretched hand pokes someone in the eye
So tell me the difference between the 2 below scenarios. In a 5 round fight....
Fighter A: Throws 30 leg kicks and 2 go high and hit his opponents groin. Fighter is warned that he will lose a point if it happens again.
Jones: Stiff arms opponent's face/head 30 times over the course of the fight and twice his fingers happen to go in an eye. He is warned a point will be deducted if it happens again.
Correct...it happened early in the fight, Jones was warned, and made sure it never happened again.
He did keep pawing at his head, which is perfectly fine and perfectly legal.
sekundarburnes -RampageFitsLikeAGlove -sekundarburnes - except when your outstretched hand pokes someone in the eye
So tell me the difference between the 2 below scenarios. In a 5 round fight....
Fighter A: Throws 30 leg kicks and 2 go high and hit his opponents groin. Fighter is warned that he will lose a point if it happens again.
Jones: Stiff arms opponent's face/head 30 times over the course of the fight and twice his fingers happen to go in an eye. He is warned a point will be deducted if it happens again.
In any scenario similar to and including the ones you put down, if fighter whatever cant execute a technique without accidentally breaking the rules and he continues usong that technique, he should be punished with a point deduction. What's so shitty about what jones does is that he probably knows he's forcing his opponent to move awkwardly to avoid an eye poke, and that, in addition to measuinh distance is why he holds his arms and fingers out in the other guy's face
Completely agree. If he continues to use the illegal technique, he should definitely lose a point each time it happens. Dan warned him last night, either in the 1st or 2nd round that if it happens again, he would lose a point. It never happened again. He adjusted.
Johnny Mclain - http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/showthread.php?p=93064767
this is a collection of poke gifs.
He should have been called on it vs Rua
It is now his most effective weapon and the base of his style.
You clearly missed the point of the thread. The OP is saying an outstretched hand/pawing at your opponents head and face is NOT equal to an eye poke.
And those gifs you showed prove his point. I didn't see one eye poke on Lyoto, Shogun, Rampage, or Rashad.
I believe Jones has poked Gustaffson once in the eye and now Glover twice. Add up the rounds he's fought in the UFC. Add up the minutes and I'm sure you'd find it quite difficult to say it's his "most effective weapon." You're not being honest with yourself.