Technique, strength, speed. Pure aggression. He's an animal bred for war and it's a beautiful thing. No guard flopping, no lapel tugging, no butt scooting or scoring advantages. Just BJJ in the violent ballet it was always meant to be. Crush kill destroy. Granted, he sometimes holds on to subs too long and that's not acceptable, but the fury he brings to a match/fight is immense. BJJ matches/fights often have an unfortunate tendency to drift into wait and see territory--with Paul Harris it's kill and eat. Good stuff.
I'll agree i like Touquinho's style and his style is worth emulating. He still has behaved like an ass though murilo needs to have a word or seven with him
No, that is almost wholly inaccurate.
Nearly all top BJJers train "like wrestling" in terms of intensity.
You have never seen him pulling lapels because you have never seen him compete in the gi.
Palhares "guard flops" all the damn time, even in MMA.
BJJ was "always meant to be", in the eyes of those we generally acknowledge as the founders, a style of positional dominance and technical elegance, not one of overwhelming physicality and PED abuse.
fanboysareevil - No, that is almost wholly inaccurate.Nailed it
Nearly all top BJJers train "like wrestling" in terms of intensity.
You have never seen him pulling lapels because you have never seen him compete in the gi.
Palhares "guard flops" all the damn time, even in MMA.
BJJ was "always meant to be", in the eyes of those we generally acknowledge as the founders, a style of positional dominance and technical elegance, not one of overwhelming physicality and PED abuse.
fanboysareevil - No, that is almost wholly inaccurate.
Nearly all top BJJers train "like wrestling" in terms of intensity.
You have never seen him pulling lapels because you have never seen him compete in the gi.
Palhares "guard flops" all the damn time, even in MMA.
BJJ was "always meant to be", in the eyes of those we generally acknowledge as the founders, a style of positional dominance and technical elegance, not one of overwhelming physicality and PED abuse.
Yes and no. I agree with positional dominance, but technical elegance maybe... Also depends on which side of the family.
Carlson Gracie (I consider him to be just as important as the founders) was known to push the physicality/aggression and it is well knows his guys were on the bomba, for example.
Isn't Jake Sheilds more like bjj trained like wrestling ?
I like the Paul Harris aggressive style. His take downs are top shelf and when he pulls guard it's straight into a heel hook.
I don't like how he try's to intentionally hurt people though by torquing after the tap though. I wonder if he does that in training?
Paul Harris is BJJ when done by someone whose mom drank while pregnant.
fanboysareevil - No, that is almost wholly inaccurate.
Nearly all top BJJers train "like wrestling" in terms of intensity.
You have never seen him pulling lapels because you have never seen him compete in the gi.
Palhares "guard flops" all the damn time, even in MMA.
BJJ was "always meant to be", in the eyes of those we generally acknowledge as the founders, a style of positional dominance and technical elegance, not one of overwhelming physicality and PED abuse.
I like this guy's take. Quality post.
Paul Harris when in his 50's like me will not be the same explosive/crazy/smash/pass/smash some more/pop-the--knee-oops-I- sorry & repeat steroidal animal he is right now. Guaranteed.
More to the point how many men still wrestling (not coaching) toe to toe with suplexes and the biggest most explosive moves as a training lifestyle in their 40s 50s and beyond, unlike the more suststainable practice of BJJ or Judo? Harris is cool to watch (until he pops a joint) but I'll take my old slow, non PED journey over his anytime.
circusmonkey - More to the point how many men still wrestling (not coaching) toe to toe with suplexes and the biggest most explosive moves as a training lifestyle in their 40s 50s and beyond, unlike the more suststainable practice of BJJ or Judo? Harris is cool to watch (until he pops a joint) but I'll take my old slow, non PED journey over his anytime.I've never bought into the argument that we should train like old men while we're still young enough to train relatively hard.
I think A better plan would be to go hard while we can(within reason, not trying to hurt anyone).
One can always switch to the old man style of rolling when they no longer can train hard.
Just my opinion of course and I didn't start until 40 and go relatively hard at 46.
circusmonkey - More to the point how many men still wrestling (not coaching) toe to toe with suplexes and the biggest most explosive moves as a training lifestyle in their 40s 50s and beyond, unlike the more suststainable practice of BJJ or Judo? Harris is cool to watch (until he pops a joint) but I'll take my old slow, non PED journey over his anytime.
I think a lot of people take the idea of longevity in the sport to ridiculous extremes. What I get out of the sport is the competitive aspect. When I'm no longer competitive, I doubt it'll have the same luster for me. So I have no real desire to be training when I'm 50 because obviously won't be able to compete. I'll probably take up some other pursuit that allows me to be competitive in a different way. Your mileage may vary.
What I have always took training for longevity to mean is to adapt a style that will allow one to be competitive for a very long time because it is not dependent upon attributes that rapidly diminish with age, not training light or in a passive manner. Sure, many of the guys on the podium at black belt in big tournaments tend to under 30, but if you're going to quit Jiu-Jitsu just because you're a little past being black belt world champion then you probably never loved it in the first place.
fanboysareevil - No, that is almost wholly inaccurate.
Nearly all top BJJers train "like wrestling" in terms of intensity.
You have never seen him pulling lapels because you have never seen him compete in the gi.
Palhares "guard flops" all the damn time, even in MMA.
BJJ was "always meant to be", in the eyes of those we generally acknowledge as the founders, a style of positional dominance and technical elegance, not one of overwhelming physicality and PED abuse.
Allow me to retort, point by point.
1. They may train "like wrestling," but they damn sure don't compete like wrestling. Between double guard pulls, 50/50, and trying to win by advantages, there's a ton of big name competitors who show everything but intensity in their matches.
2. And I hope I never do.
3. You appear to be confusing "guard flop" with "actively and aggressively hunting a submission." There's a difference.
4. No. Just no. None of those founders meant BJJ to be a grip battle where neither man advances unless he gets just the right grip because, you know, his game plan consists of only one move (Rafa vs Clark Gracie in Metamorsis is a prime example of this). They never would have condoned the ridiculousness that is currently sport jiu jitsu. Most those founders and old practitioners you mention were also vale tudo fighters. Compare that with today, where most BJJ players do not and have never fought. Completely different mindsets and perspectives.
If you don't think wrestling has positional dominance and technical elegance...I have to ask, have you ever even seen any high level wrestling matches?
Without physicality, BJJ is not going to work in a real scenario. If you think Royce wasn't using all this strength and physical abilities in those early UFCs along with all the technical knowledge he had at his disposal, well, you're mistaken. The idea of BJJ removed from strength and speed is a myth that can only exist--and even then in a very basic form--in the gym with compliant training partners.
fanboysareevil - What I have always took training for longevity to mean is to adapt a style that will allow one to be competitive for a very long time because it is not dependent upon attributes that rapidly diminish with age, not training light or in a passive manner. Sure, many of the guys on the podium at black belt in big tournaments tend to under 30, but if you're going to quit Jiu-Jitsu just because you're a little past being black belt world champion then you probably never loved it in the first place.
This makes sense and I agree with it.
I was referring to Palhares with the comment about overwhelming physicality vs positional domincance, not wrestling. To counter what you have said:
1. Please post some matches with a lot of boring double guard pull that occured after the rule change. I would also submit that it's hard to find boring 50/50 matches when heel hooks are allowed. In this case, blame the rules, not competitors. If you find this positions to be inherently lacking in dynamism because they prevent explosiveness, then that's on you.
2. If you just hate the gi then why did you even bring it up?
3. You are correct that Palhares tends to try and pull directly into sub attempts, but so do many other high level BJJers.
4. I don't think you really understand the dynamics that often exist at the highest levels. Rafa Mendes dominates and submits 80+% of his opponents extremely aggressively. Just because finals and superfight matches are often dull because two ultra high level guys neutralize each other doesn't mean that that's an accurate reflection of what top level jiu-jitsu normally looks like.
That last paragraph is kind of strawma. I've trained, competed in, and watched BJJ before man, just like everyone else here.
<blockquote>ChipW - <span id='userPost55028648' class='User-291890'><blockquote>circusmonkey - More to the point how many men still wrestling (not coaching) toe to toe with suplexes and the biggest most explosive moves as a training lifestyle in their 40s 50s and beyond, unlike the more suststainable practice of BJJ or Judo? Harris is cool to watch (until he pops a joint) but I'll take my old slow, non PED journey over his anytime.</blockquote>I've never bought into the argument that we should train like old men while we're still young enough to train relatively hard. <br> <br>I think A better plan would be to go hard while we can(within reason, not trying to hurt anyone). <br>One can always switch to the old man style of rolling when they no longer can train hard.<br><br><br>Just my opinion of course and I didn't start until 40 and go relatively hard at 46. <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post 3.0" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/></span></blockquote><br /> I'm 5'8 165 lbs and 52. I never deny or avoid rolling with anyone, so I have to engage wild younger men by default. I just prefer to them ore technical and intense matches rather than the smash style. I began in my early 30's, so maybe I'm just tired of the bruises and marked up face!
I train with a 70 yr old who was d1 wrestler as well. He goes hard and brings it.
Keep it moving else you'll end up old
ChipW - I like the Paul Harris aggressive style. His take downs are top shelf and when he pulls guard it's straight into a heel hook.I trained with him a couple of times before he fought in the UFC. I was a purple belt at the time but he treated me as gently as a kid, caught and realeased heel hooks and didn't crank a submission once
I don't like how he try's to intentionally hurt people though by torquing after the tap though. I wonder if he does that in training?