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I laugh when I hear the pharamaceutical companies putting down alternative medicine all the time. They're just mad they're loosing some of the profit.
Perry
Or maybe they're putting down 'remedies' that have little to no solid scientific evidence of efficacy.
If they don't work, why do people still use them?
"Or maybe they're putting down 'remedies' that have little to no solid scientific evidence of efficacy."
As opposed to FDA-approved pharmacueticals with 'withheld' scientific evidence of inherent dangers. Does vioxx or oxycodone ring a bell?
^Nobody ever said pharmaceuticals were perfect. And I'm not denying that there is political pressure brought to bear sometimes. But the fact remains that there is a robust scientific review system in place for drugs in this country. The very fact that drugs are recalled shows that there are some checks and balances in place. There are NONE for 'alternative' remedies. The market is rife with charlatans and quacks whose ONLY motivation is to get your money. Yes, pharmas are for profit businesses, but they have a vested interest to be concerned about people's health given the litiginous nature of our society.
If they don't work, why do people still use them?
Because people want to believe they work and that 'natural' substances have zero negative side effects like the big bad drugs that are forced down your throat by the Dr.
The bottom line is that most, if not all drugs have upsides and downsides and are not right for everyone. People want simple solutions, not complicated ones. Sometimes they simplify a complex solution and get into trouble. Sometimes doctors do this. Like I said, it's not a perfect system. But if you think the 'alternative' market has perfect solutions, you're deluding yourself.
I want to point out I'm not saying you need to buy expensive health supplements with flashy labels. They help, but I stick with the cheapest methods possible. If, at the very least, a person decided to just drink three liters of filtered water a day and only ate organic RAW food (except meat), I'd still consider that alternative medicine if it helps someone. It's amazing how much a difference a GOOD diet can make. What some people consider a good diet is not a good diet.
"Because people want to believe they work and that 'natural' substances have zero negative side effects like the big bad drugs that are forced down your throat by the Dr."
Perhaps I worded my question wrong. I wanted to say this: If they don't work, why are there many people who continue to use the same natural product?
I know people who've used alternative medicine for years and swear by it. If it doesn't work, why do they STILL use it? Shouldn't they say, "oh, this doesn't work. I'm switching to pharmaceuticals."
Are you're saying you don't know anybody who's benefited from alternative medicine? Maybe you need to talk to more people who use it. I'm not talking about someone who eats unhealthy and take a supplement from walgreens. I'm talking about someone who made natural health their lifestyle and only used alternative medecine.
Perry
If they don't work, why are there many people who continually use the same natural product?
It doesn't matter how you phrase the question, the answer is still the same.
I know people who've used natural products for years and swear by them. If they don't work, why do they STILL use them? Shouldn't they say, "oh, this doesn't work. I'm switching to pharmaceuticals."
Again, people believe what they wanna believe. Sometimes very strongly. There are MANY documented cases of the placebo effect (with drugs as well as alternative therapies). Also, I believe that many people buy shit and even if they don't notice any discernable effects they might justify the cost in their mind because it's still 'healthy' or 'natural' and therefore they recommend the product because they've made an emotional investment after justifying a financial one. The cold, hard fact of the matter is that you CANNOT definitively and objectively use yourself as a test subject. It just doesn't mean anything in terms of efficacy. At all.
Bear in mind, I'm not saying that there are NO good alternative therapies (essential fatty acids have received a lot of positive press based on, guess what? RESEARCH!!) . There certainly may be, but you cannot claim efficacy in humans unless it's studied in humans using scientific methods. There just isn't any way around this, no matter how much you want to believe there is.
I'm talking about someone who made natural health their lifestyle and only used alternative medecine.
Again, I've never said that pharmas or western medicine have the answer to everything. Anyone who does tell you that is probably selling something. Just like anyone who tells you western medicine is evil and alternative medicine is 'better' is almost DEFINTELY selling something. If someone starts eating healthy and exercising they're most likely going to benefit in some way from it.
The drawback to western medicine and drugs is they're reactive; they do really well for helping acute problems but terrible at preventing problems. But prevention is orders of magnatude harder to study than reaction. If you never get cancer it's much harder to determine why than it is to make a drug that attacks a tumor once it's formed.
Here's something you're missing... not all bodies work the same. What helps one may not help another. Some might get side effects from it and others may not. We're not cloned.
If I took a pharmaceutical that wasn't helping me and gave me a side effect, I'd stop using it. I wouldn't listen to a doctor that told me it helped 98% of the tested humans and I should continue to use it.
Perry
OK, your same rationale applies to alternative therapies, too, so I don't really see your point. It's a limitation in both philosophies.
This goes for the prevention philosophy as well; a certain protocol may prevent a disease in one person but not another.
If something is giving you side effects that outweigh the benefit of the treatment, then stop. I don't think any rational doctor would advise otherwise. When they say that 98 or whatever percent of people who take it have no side effects, that just means its safe for most people, and thus a worthwhile treatment to use.
Nobody is going to think your crazy if you experience side effects... if 98% of people don't then by definition 2% of people DO! Nobody hides these facts, the testing process is rather transparent.
I think the reason there's not much studies in alternative medicine is because they are expensive. Pharmaceutical companies are not going to finance them because it would lower pharmaceutical sales. You also can't patent something like raw vegetarianism or bentonite clay/psylium husk powder for colon cleansing. If it's something simple that you can do find in a grocery store or grow yourself, nobody would get a profit. It would benefit no investor to finance a study like this.
They other thing is alternative medicine doesn't have to be expensive. If you see some guy off the street selling a piece of metal that is from outer space for $500 and will cure cancer, it's a scam. All you need is some common sense. The idea is get your body to fuction on its own. Removing parasites, hdyrating your body with good water, dissolving liver stones, getting rid of constipation, removing heavy metals, eating organic food, using only healthy fats and oils, using stevia instead of refined sugar, taking full breaths of air, eating super foods like chlorella/spirulina, removing white bread, etc etc are very cheap to do. If you do this type of "alternative medicine" you're not supporting some bum off the street.
The thing is most people are not disciplined enough to follow a strict regimen to be naturally healthy. They need a quick fix so they can still live their usual unhealthy lifestye. Medicine doesn't get to the root of the problem.
Perry
Pharmaceutical companies are not going to finance them because it would lower pharmaceutical sales.
Bullshit. You don't think pharmas could come up with a proprietary formula that they could sell if some of this shit did half of what the 'holistic' quacks claimed?? You're not business minded enough. After all, other compaines are selling this stuff and making a shit load of money. You think the pharmas are just passing that up for the hell of it????
I will say that you're partially correct; it is very expensive, and VERY complicated to determine a preventative protocol compared to a reactive one. But don't kid yourself into thinking that pharmas are staying out of the 'natural' cure market because there's no money in it. That's absolutely ridiculous.
SCAM is a multi billion dollar industry, they're perfectly positioned to do proper trials on a product before taking it to market, but they never do.
I wonder why that is.
"You don't think pharmas could come up with a proprietary formula that they could sell if some of this shit did half of what the 'holistic' quacks claimed??"
Pharmaceutical companies could not patent them. No doctor's prescription would be needed. They'd be cheaper than pharaceuticals. People could make their own version by growing certain herbs and plants in their backyard. Generic versions would be so easy to make. With little to no side effects, people might not stay sick forever. I'm sure the pharmas like things just the way they are now.
Anyways, forget about natural supplements because I don't even use them. I get better, cheaper results by focusing strictly on natural foods. Let's see what I do the pharmas could benefit from....
-eating organic food. Only if they grew it, but they're not farmers.
-drinking three liters of filtered water a day. Only if they made water filters.
-Cleaning the liver with fresh beet juice. Only if they started making juicers or growing beets.
-Fasting. I HOPE they could not charge me for that.
-Bowel cleansing. Maybe. The thing is I could still grow psyllium husk in my backyard. I could dig up bentonite clay in some part of the world and make it food grade quality. The supply and demand graph would not be too appealing to them.
-I eat NO refined sugar. Maybe if they started selling raw honey and stevia. Ooooh...big money there.
-Japanese grown spirulina and chlorella. They could start selling this stuff, but STILL there's plenty of certified organic growers of this product.
-Using only extra virgin olive oil and coconut oil. I guess they could compete with Bertolli and Tropical Traditions, but it wouldn't be worth their time.
-eating only raw food except meat (heat kills nutrients). Hmmmm....I really don't see them making money on this one.
-Parasite cleansing. They could start selling the necessary herbs, but still many hippies could grow this stuff.
They way I see it, unless they grew and sold all the food in the world, made all herbs illegal like marijuana, they would not make money at this form of natural health. They'd make so much more just offering a pill to lazy people who THINK they're eating healthy.
My point is that what people think is healthy usually isn't. A doctor will not ask in depth questions about the patient's diet. He probably doesn't eat healthy himself. "Do you eat healthy?" "Yes." "Okay, next question...."
Look how obese America is getting. I see all these ads on tv for state of the art pharmaceuticals. Do pharmas make ads about ways to eat healthy? No. They're in it for the money. They'll make an ad about a pill so you can loose weight and still eat pizza and lasagna all day long. If they really wanted to help people, they'd focus more on people's diet. They only care about money.
Perry
People could make their own version by growing certain herbs and plants in their backyard. Generic versions would be so easy to make.
Ahh, I see. That's why there's a zillion and one websites where you can buy any and ALL manner of suppliments. Because people wanna grow them themselves. Uh huh.
They only care about money.
Yea, and all the 'holistic' doctors who have their own 'secret' cleansing formula or the most organic apple cider vinegar or the purest spirulina are all in it solely for the benefit of humanity. That's why they give all their stuff away, right? Yes. I see the light now. Thank you for showing me the path.
"They'll make an ad about a pill so you can loose weight and still eat pizza and lasagna all day long."
If you look at the store displays, website, etc of Alli, which I assume is the pill you're talking about, you'll see that it tells you multiple times that they want you to commit to regular exercise and a healthy diet in addition to the drug. So no, they're not making a pill that lets you eat crap all day, in fact that would be intensely uncomfortable. Especially if you own white pants.
How many more times do you want to be wrong?
A healthy diet according to the FDA or whoever makes that stupid food pyramid is a fucking joke.Its for the profit of big agriculture.
Pharma should be the last resort not the first with Dr kickbacks from drug companies ,proliferation of drug dealers in Dr offices and mainstream direct to consumer advertising.Not to mention the new "syndromes" being invented constantly which for the most part boil down to metabolic and immune dis-ease from years of eating the wrong foods.
Do you want to be a consumerist guinea pig for these new drugs??Take something to sleep,to wake up,to not pee during the night,to make your leg not move,to not be depressed,to lose weight,to lower cholesterol,for chronic inflammation(people died over Vioxx BTW)chronic fatigue,fibromyalgia,make your dick hard.....it is a scam and no amount of discrediting alternative approaches will change that.
Just curious, have you seen the new food pyramid? It's less grain heavy than it was, you can even customize it for yourself on the website.
it is a scam and no amount of discrediting alternative approaches will change that.
Must be kinda boring to live in a world of such stark black and white.
No need to be so hostile pfsjkd. This is a public forum and it's okay to have different opinions.
Anyway...I have two questions for pfsjkd or jonwell.
Do you believe there are healthier ways to fix a health problem than taking medication?
Do you believe all natural doctors are quacks? even those that started out as medical doctors?
I believe (sorry to disagree) prescribing a SUPER healthy diet catered to the patient is what doctors need to focus on.
Perry