Prime Coleman vs prime Ken?

Ken had some good leg locks but I think Coleman drops enough lunch boxes to prevent da heel hooks. 

 

In pride,where I think both were in their prime,  I see Coleman dropping knees from the 69.

Coleman via head smash 

Coleman via brutal GNP

Coleman via living death and hair knocked black(er)

You think Ken was in his prime in Pride??


Ken's prime was the mid 90's. His Pride fights came after he went to WWF for 4 years and got one of the injuries that helped ruin his career.

Ken was a shadow of his former self in Pride.

In the mid to late 90's....

Ken via better cardio.

He might have to weather a storm and submit a tired Coleman.

onepunchJD - In the mid to late 90's....

Ken via better cardio.

He might have to weather a storm and submit a tired Coleman.

Nog and Fedor were the only people to submit him outside of Couture in his last fight, Shammy isnt going to pull off a submission after weathering that storm. 

onepunchJD - You think Ken was in his prime in Pride??


Ken's prime was the mid 90's. His Pride fights came after he went to WWF for 4 years and got one of the injuries that helped ruin his career.

Ken was a shadow of his former self in Pride.

The Shamrock thar tapped to a skinny Royce in under a minute was prime Ken?  He never won a tourney,  skinny Royce and Coleman did

Tim Duncan -
onepunchJD - You think Ken was in his prime in Pride??


Ken's prime was the mid 90's. His Pride fights came after he went to WWF for 4 years and got one of the injuries that helped ruin his career.

Ken was a shadow of his former self in Pride.

The Shamrock thar tapped to a skinny Royce in under a minute was prime Ken?  He never won a tourney,  skinny Royce and Coleman did

Yeah and most of those people he heelhooked were wearing giant fucking boots.....oh and most of those fights were fake in an organization that had more fake fights than the WWE. 

Ken was just as strong if not stronger that Coleman. Mo Smith said Ken was the strongest he ever felt. He also had excellent wrestling for MMA, a solid clinch, and a good sprawl.
Ken and Coleman are the only fighters who physically manhandled Severn in that era -- a guy who was both bigger and had superior wrestling credentials over Ken.
So its not a given that Coleman gets the instant takedown. He might have to work for it. The longer it goes, the more it favors Ken.

Keep in mind 2 guys who trained with Ken beat Coleman via superior conditioning in the UFC. And Pete wasn't getting the better of Ken in the gym.

Ken KO'd Coleman in training. Its only training, so not a predictor. But these 2 guys were evenly matched physically.

Nothing wrong with picking Coleman...
But its a much closer matchup than many people will admit.

Non N00B - 
Tim Duncan -
onepunchJD - You think Ken was in his prime in Pride??


Ken's prime was the mid 90's. His Pride fights came after he went to WWF for 4 years and got one of the injuries that helped ruin his career.

Ken was a shadow of his former self in Pride.

The Shamrock thar tapped to a skinny Royce in under a minute was prime Ken?  He never won a tourney,  skinny Royce and Coleman did

Yeah and most of those people he heelhooked were wearing giant fucking boots.....oh and most of those fights were fake in an organization that had more fake fights than the WWE. 


LOL


Wildly inaccurate post.

A shammy appologist, he's the most overrated big name fighter from that era, period. 

Non N00B - 

A shammy appologist, he's the most overrated big name fighter from that era, period. 


Well, your "opinion" doesn't accurately reflect what actually occurred.

Ken was one of the best fighters in the world in the mid 90's. Its not even debatable.

But I'm sure you think your opinion is more valid than that of fighters and people who trained with him. A guy like Don Frye rating Ken so highly doesn't mean shit compared to your bias, right?

LOL

Carry on.

StevetheWeasel - 
onepunchJD - You think Ken was in his prime in Pride??


Ken's prime was the mid 90's. His Pride fights came after he went to WWF for 4 years and got one of the injuries that helped ruin his career.

Ken was a shadow of his former self in Pride.

He wasn't as strong as he was in the mid 90s, but he was still close, and his skill set, especially his striking was a whole lot better in Pride. I tend to think the Ken that beat Otsuka and came damn close to putting away Fujita was probably the overall best fighter - if a slightly lesser physical specimen - that he ever was.

Valid points...

But Ken was physically limited by his neck and knee injuries at that time. He had to work on his striking because he was physically not able to be the dominant grappler he once was.

Still a good/tough brawler with some subs... But the physical differences were more than just size.

onepunchJD -
Non N00B - 

A shammy appologist, he's the most overrated big name fighter from that era, period. 


Well, your "opinion" doesn't accurately reflect what actually occurred.

Ken was one of the best fighters in the world in the mid 90's. Its not even debatable.

But I'm sure you think your opinion is more valid than that of fighters and people who trained with him. A guy like Don Frye rating Ken so highly doesn't mean shit compared to your bias, right?

LOL

Carry on.

Why dont you look up the definition of overrated, because he fits that bill perfectly. He did get some big wins, but never won a UFC tournament, didnt fight some of the top guys until later like Frye, never beat Royce with 3 attempts despite being juiced to the fucking eye sockets, he dodged a lot of top fighters of his era by being in the WWE. Im not implying he ran, he took what was the smart money at the time, but he is the most overrated fighter from that era by far. It's not great that he gets sooooo much more mention over his adopted brother who was a way better fighter for his time.

 

Nevermind all of his shady ass fights with weird outcomes. It's ALWAYS something. 

onepunchJD - Ken was just as strong if not stronger that Coleman. Mo Smith said Ken was the strongest he ever felt. He also had excellent wrestling for MMA, a solid clinch, and a good sprawl.
Ken and Coleman are the only fighters who physically manhandled Severn in that era -- a guy who was both bigger and had superior wrestling credentials over Ken.
So its not a given that Coleman gets the instant takedown. He might have to work for it. The longer it goes, the more it favors Ken.

Keep in mind 2 guys who trained with Ken beat Coleman via superior conditioning in the UFC. And Pete wasn't getting the better of Ken in the gym.

Ken KO'd Coleman in training. Its only training, so not a predictor. But these 2 guys were evenly matched physically.

Nothing wrong with picking Coleman...
But its a much closer matchup than many people will admit.

Who's not to say that Petey or Mo wouldnt beat Ken in a fight?  Tra beat Igor but I doubt Ken could.  I would favor Mo in a Shamrock fight,  Petey,  might win via Petey my heart!

 

I would have liked to have seen a Mo vs Coleman rematch.  Coleman 2.0 would beat him IMO.

onepunchJD - 
StevetheWeasel - 
onepunchJD - You think Ken was in his prime in Pride??


Ken's prime was the mid 90's. His Pride fights came after he went to WWF for 4 years and got one of the injuries that helped ruin his career.

Ken was a shadow of his former self in Pride.

He wasn't as strong as he was in the mid 90s, but he was still close, and his skill set, especially his striking was a whole lot better in Pride. I tend to think the Ken that beat Otsuka and came damn close to putting away Fujita was probably the overall best fighter - if a slightly lesser physical specimen - that he ever was.

Valid points...

But Ken was physically limited by his neck and knee injuries at that time. He had to work on his striking because he was physically not able to be the dominant grappler he once was.

Still a good/tough brawler with some subs... But the physical differences were more than just size.

His stand-up may have improved technically, but his overall athleticism was severely hampered and he was simply a slower guy.

Prime Ken was UFC 5-UU96 (1995-1996), imo.

Non N00B - 
onepunchJD -
Non N00B - 

A shammy appologist, he's the most overrated big name fighter from that era, period. 


Well, your "opinion" doesn't accurately reflect what actually occurred.

Ken was one of the best fighters in the world in the mid 90's. Its not even debatable.

But I'm sure you think your opinion is more valid than that of fighters and people who trained with him. A guy like Don Frye rating Ken so highly doesn't mean shit compared to your bias, right?

LOL

Carry on.

Why dont you look up the definition of overrated, because he fits that bill perfectly. He did get some big wins, but never won a UFC tournament, didnt fight some of the top guys until later like Frye, never beat Royce with 3 attempts despite being juiced to the fucking eye sockets, he dodged a lot of top fighters of his era by being in the WWE. Im not implying he ran, he took what was the smart money at the time, but he is the most overrated fighter from that era by far. It's not great that he gets sooooo much more mention over his adopted brother who was a way better fighter for his time.

 

Nevermind all of his shady ass fights with weird outcomes. It's ALWAYS something. 


Maybe overrated is the wrong word to use, but I agree to the extent that he didn't live up to his athletic potential, imo.

He should have absolutely ruled the sport, not just have been one of the top guys of the era.

HoldMeCloser - 

coleman. you guys forgetting in the old rules coleman took people down and headbutted thier face into hamburger

 

Non N00B - 
onepunchJD -
Non N00B - 

A shammy appologist, he's the most overrated big name fighter from that era, period. 


Well, your "opinion" doesn't accurately reflect what actually occurred.

Ken was one of the best fighters in the world in the mid 90's. Its not even debatable.

But I'm sure you think your opinion is more valid than that of fighters and people who trained with him. A guy like Don Frye rating Ken so highly doesn't mean shit compared to your bias, right?

LOL

Carry on.

Why dont you look up the definition of overrated, because he fits that bill perfectly. He did get some big wins, but never won a UFC tournament, didnt fight some of the top guys until later like Frye, never beat Royce with 3 attempts despite being juiced to the fucking eye sockets, he dodged a lot of top fighters of his era by being in the WWE. Im not implying he ran, he took what was the smart money at the time, but he is the most overrated fighter from that era by far. It's not great that he gets sooooo much more mention over his adopted brother who was a way better fighter for his time.

 

Nevermind all of his shady ass fights with weird outcomes. It's ALWAYS something. 


Well that's a little better. At least now you are making specific points instead of exaggerated statements.

No he never won a UFC tournament. He was legitimately injured when he pulled out of 3 of them. But I tend to NOT give him a pass for the first one. I do not think Ken needed to be 100% to beat Harold Howard. He was butthurt Royce pulled out, and he threw his little fit. His Dad was pissed at him for it -- and Ken himself regretted it later and admitted it was a mistake.

The UU96 he broke his hand. Sucks, but it happens.

And Ken did win the first King Of Pancrase tournament, beating guys like Mo Smith and Funaki in the process. Day what you want about Pancrase. But it featured more depth of skilled fighters than the UFC at that time -- even though the top couple UFC guys were arguably superior.

Regardless, Ken beat guys who won UFC tournaments. Severn won 2 of them, and Ken ran through him.


I agree he spent what should have been his best fighting years in WWF. I also agree he deserves criticism foe certain things.

But his record in the mid 90s is top notch. He was dominant.