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PRIME Pride fighter vs PRIME ufc fighter

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41

CLINTK9 - 
UGPTT_Rear Naked Chode - 
liquidrob - 
Wasa-B - BROKE Fitch vs MOTIVATED BJ vs HEALTHY Shogun

vs UFC 100 Brock vs KRU Hughes vs HORSEMEAT Overeem

Vs Pride Wanderlei vs Chuck with that look in his eyes vs Old Vitor vs New Vitor vs TeeAreTeeTor

vs prime Tank Abbott

Vs Elitexc Kimbo vs For Real Houston Alexander.

42


43

 

disbeliever - 
It was a Pride fighter vs UFC fighter debate, I've already said that...

Also, I have already said why I respond to orcus, because I read every Fedor thread as I am a fan, and there he always is. Quite the leap, that's been debunked, that I "follow him from thread to thread".

Your reading comprehension skills have not improved from SN to SN

lmao

44

"why do you bring up all that negative stuff about Coleman to diminish Fedor's win, but dont even mention anything about Jones opponents that could lower the value in his wins?"

They are all things to consider. Fedor not getting successfully ground and pounded by a guy who has shown very little successful GnP in the preceding century does not give us much useful information about Fedor. Jones tooling guys who, despite whatever declines they may have suffered, were at the time (and in some cases ARE still even now) the top guys in his (supposedly super-deep) division is quite different, don't you think?

45

disbeliever - 
orcus - 


"It's not semantics, it's facts. To ignore them is biased, period. I even said the out come would not change, but to pretend the facts don't exist is pure bias."



What thread was that?



And if you're so against "omitting important details" and think facts like Shogun being 30 and having a year layoff shouldn't be ignored and have to be included to avoid bias, then why do you not only keep silent when people blather about, say, Fedor beating Coleman without mentioning that he was 40, had only one fight in the previous 3 years (a miserable lay and pray of an unranked fighter), and had only one significant win in the 7 years since losing his way out of the UFC on 3 straight, but when I point out those "important details", you get all pissy and join the brigade of butthurt retards complaining about my efforts to "discredit" the win?



Tell me again about bias.


You're the one into searching posts, so go look. Recent thread where you were talking about Jones beating Shogun.

Why do I not mention Coleman being 40 or had 1 fight in 3 years? Because I don't need to, you are always there to remind people of that. In every Fedor thread. So what purpose would be repeating it serve? I know you will show up and say those things. Notice how I don't delete them at all? Because they deserve to be in the discussions, and are a valid point.

It's also funny how emotional you get over these things. You go from trying to respond like a grown up to throwing out words like "pissy" and butthurt retard", I think I've even seen you throw out "cunt" recently. Your obsessive compulsive nature is always good for a laugh, because there is no denying how obsessed over anything Pride or Fedor related you are. Nice debating skills!


"You're the one into searching posts, so go look."



I did a google search and didn't find it.



"Because they deserve to be in the discussions, and are a valid point."



Really? Then to what comments are you referring when you say I'm always "discrediting" everybody? Why do you join the Butthurt Brigade in whining about my Fedor "hate" if I'm posting valid points that deserve to be in the discussion? 



Can you tell me what's different about YOUR contribution of the facts around Shogun going into the Jones fight, in response to my leaving said facts out, and MY contribution of the facts around various Fedor fights, that his nuthuggers routinely yammer about while leaving said facts out?



And lol @ "I don't delete them at all", why the fuck would you delete them?



"Let me be clear here, since you are slow, I did not bring up Jones beating Shogun, nor was I the one trying to use Jones win over Shogun to somehow prove UFC > Pride. "



lol...so when someone ELSE makes a thread about Jones beating Fedor, a bunch of retards try to use Fedor's wins over Coleman and Hong Man Choi to somehow prove Fedor would beat Jones, and I point out the FACTS in those instances that greatly differentiate those fights and fighters from Jones, this is different from what you're doing? You are just trying to clear up some bias, but I'm "obsessive compulsive" and "discrediting" Fedor. Got it.



"You go from trying to respond like a grown up to throwing out words like "pissy" and butthurt retard","



I'm not writing a thesis. I use whatever language seems appropriate. Butthurt retards are best addressed as  such.

46

" trying to use Jones win over Shogun to somehow prove UFC > Pride. ""

lol, I figured it out. This was in the "Jones would starch Fedor" thread which was removed for some bizarre reason.

Here's the actual accurate version of what happened: In response to my "discrediting" of Fedor's win over Coleman, retards insisted it was the same as Jones' win over Shogun -- a win over a non-prime version of a great fighter, since Shogun was past prime and had his knee surgeries etc. To which I pointed out that it was nothing alike; because while Coleman had literally just one relevant win in 7 years, and was coming off a shit performance over an unranked fighter, Shogun was the #1 ranked fighter in the world when Jones fought him, coming off his best UFC performances and arguably best career performances.

Somehow your obsessed, stupid little mind turned that into "UFC > Pride". Which is weird because what I was *actually* doing was what you're in this thread saying we *should* do -- point out all the missing facts that were left out by the biased party.

lol

Nice debating skills.

47


"lol...so when someone ELSE makes a thread about Jones beating Fedor, a bunch of retards try to use Fedor's wins over Coleman and Hong Man Choi to somehow prove Fedor would beat Jones, and I point out the FACTS in those instances that greatly differentiate those fights and fighters from Jones, this is different from what you're doing? You are just trying to clear up some bias, but I'm "obsessive compulsive" and "discrediting" Fedor. Got it."


So there are dozens of delusional UGers who think you discredit Fedor in every single Fedor thread who are not correct then (including a random poster who started another thread on this very topic today)?

"Hong Man Choi to somehow prove Fedor would beat Jones"

Who said this? It's just another ignorant shot at Fedor. How about 7-0 VS those that ever held the UFC HW strap. 2-0 VS PRIMe Nog.

48

disbeliever - 
orcus - 


" trying to use Jones win over Shogun to somehow prove UFC > Pride. ""



lol, I figured it out. This was in the "Jones would starch Fedor" thread which was removed for some bizarre reason.



Here's the actual accurate version of what happened: In response to my "discrediting" of Fedor's win over Coleman, retards insisted it was the same as Jones' win over Shogun -- a win over a non-prime version of a great fighter, since Shogun was past prime and had his knee surgeries etc. To which I pointed out that it was nothing alike; because while Coleman had literally just one relevant win in 7 years, and was coming off a shit performance over an unranked fighter, Shogun was the #1 ranked fighter in the world when Jones fought him, coming off his best UFC performances and arguably best career performances.



Somehow your obsessed, stupid little mind turned that into "UFC > Pride". Which is weird because what I was actually doing was what you're in this thread saying we should do -- point out all the missing facts that were left out by the biased party.



lol



Nice debating skills.


Nice debating skills

Right back at you.

As usual you twist things and muddy the waters. Stay classy


Sure man. I'm the one twisting things. Not you with your repeated claim that I used Jones over Shogun as a "UFC > Pride" thing, something that was not even hinted at in that thread. Not you with your insistence that YOU are merely "pointing out important facts" while when I point out inarguable facts I am simply "discredting" fighters due to my "OCD".

49

"Show me the quotes from that thread. "

I can't. You or some other mod deleted it for some reason. Since you're the one making the claim that I was trying to use it to show UFC > Pride superiority, maybe you should be the one showing quotes?

"So it's OK for you guys to do that, but not a Fedor fan?"

I'm all for everyone bringing up whatever facts they want. I have nothing to say about Chuck in a ring because I think the ring was a complete non-issue. Rampage is obviously a bad matchup for him, the venue is irrelevant.

"ramble on in an attempt to win at any costs."

I post FACTS -- exactly like the ones you posted in this thread about Shogun -- and rather than argue the points, a bunch of idiots (with you backing them up) spew back nonsense, illogic, and accusations of "hating". Again, how am I -- the one doing what you say is a good thing, pointing out the unmentioned facts -- the problem? Why is your ideal discussion forum just a big circle jerk? 

50

How about Arona vs Tito or Chuck?

Or Miletich vs Sakurai back in their primes? Hughes beat Sakurai, Sakurai beat Trigg, Newton beat Miletich, Pele beat both Hughes and Miletich, Newton beat Pele, Hughes beat Newton, Remember that top WWs out there picture that the UFC provided back in the day under the pre-Zuffa UFC, i think it was the show that Newton beat Miletich.

Werent Faber and Kid close to fighting once in Shooto?

51

Smith1234 - 
D241 -


For those that may not know, orcus can be a SOLID poster, as long as the topics do not include-



Fedor



Pride



BJ Penn



K1 Striking



K1 fighters



 



Being that orcus HATES BJ Penn, and orcus HATES Pride, I would LOVE to see how he gets out of this corner.



 



What say you orcus? Do you agree that BJ Penn, as shitty and overrated as you think he is, was better than the Pride lw's?



Or is that shitty organization they call Pride have better lightweights than the UFC did?



 



Pick your poison  :)

This is easily my favorite UG dueling duo.

Arch enemies.

Perhaps frienemies. Phone Post 3.0


Let me tell you, at first, I had very little withdrawl from the UG when I decided to stop posting for a bit.



 



But the contributing factors to why I just can't leave this place 100%-



Lots of traffic resulting in mma discussion



pro's and famous people post here, as well as many super awesome posters



I come to sites like this first and foremost to discuss mma, and to gain perspective.



With the exception of a few topics, orcus is one of the people I could've missed the most because I love seeing him explain his points, and many times he can make a valid argument.



He's full of shit regarding Fedor, doesn't give BJ the credit he deserves, for some reason is biased against Pride, however he is the first person I saw on here to state how K1 striking doesn't have to worry about take downs, and that sat with me, and made me change my opinion on something I thought it was established on.



I honestly enjoy debating with people on here, and after our initial dispute or personal insults, we've had a pretty good back and forth of debates. I tend to agree with him though on everything but those certain topics.



 



Also, my 4yr old once heard me talking to my g/f about "Super Calo" and thought I said "super cow" and is always talking about "did you see super cow"?  When I heard "super cow", I got a little sentimental and logged in and posted.

52

"Fedor didnt have but 1-2 good wins according to you."

He had plenty of good wins. Enough to keep him at #1 for a long long time. That doesn't mean most of those wins aren't guys that would be beaten by many/most top heavyweights, or that they should convince you Fedor would of course beat [insert name of any fighter here].

53

"Its not possible for you to think Fedor could win vs anyone."

Funny you say that, because I picked Fedor to win every fight starting with the first fight with Nog. The first fight I picked him to lose was against Bigfoot.

54
Smith1234 - D, what happened to your arrows? I thought you were like plus 200 or 300. Now negative??

And is that why you mentioned coming here less?

I disliked you at first but changed my mind. Phone Post 3.0

UG Ironing happened.

 

You know how I got super upset with orcus because he's been discrediting Fedor every time he can for years and I researched his post and made a thread where I took his old post and contradict them with his current post?

 

Well I got someone super upsest with me(except I dont know who and how), and they took the time to create a vote down hack and have used it on me the past few weeks. An admin contacted me asking if I know why I would be getting voted down so much in so little time, and we found this:

 

 


 
wq419998819 - 
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55
omega 2013 - 
Wasa-B - How about Arona vs Tito or Chuck?

Or Miletich vs Sakurai back in their primes? Hughes beat Sakurai, Sakurai beat Trigg, Newton beat Miletich, Pele beat both Hughes and Miletich, Newton beat Pele, Hughes beat Newton, Remember that top WWs out there picture that the UFC provided back in the day under the pre-Zuffa UFC, i think it was the show that Newton beat Miletich.

Werent Faber and Kid close to fighting once in Shooto?

I actually talked to Faber about ths Kid fight. He said he wanted to make it happen, but not enough fans knew about Kid to get it going... Phone Post


Was this in SHooto, K1 or WEC?

56

A prime Chuck, who didn't fight in the UFC first, would win probably every fight he was in.

57

Smith1234 - I have Prime Chuck over Prime Wand by brutal KO.

The reason I joined the forum was I couldn't stand the hate prime Chuck got compared to Wand.

Prime Wand was awesome, but from 05 on not as dominant as prime Chuck. The first Wand fight I saw was as it happened was vs Nak. Nak was wearing a gi and out striking Wand, even dropping Wand to a knee. He started losing when his gi was coming off, so he removed it during fight and in explicitly left himself defenseless, got clipped and tide turned.

Chuck would have obliterated a guy in a gi with limited striking.

Arona beat Prime Wand twice and I had to finally sign up here to debate the second decision.

Chuck would have beaten the "I want to f Chuck" wand, that fight not happening is one of my biggest regrets of missed fights. Phone Post 3.0

My pick back in the day was that it could go either way. Yes, Chuck got a lot of hate for "only beating grapplers" when a grappler beat Wand arguably twice (Arona) and another (in the gi with limited striking) have Wand a couple legit go's.

Chuck may have obliterated Yoshida but make fights: Wand twice obliterated the guy who twice obliterated Chuck.

Chuck vs other strikers certainly wasnt unbeatable: Suloev, Busta, Overeem, Mezger. Of course he finished Overeem and Mezger but point is that if all of those guys could be competitve and/or go the distance with Chuck, and if Rampage beat Chuck twice, I would say Wand had his chances.

But I could also have seen Chuck counter picking off Wand too. But Wand's aggression could have broken Chuck down too.

58

CC, who was about the same size as Chuck, would have obliterated Chuck though...and did Wand of course.

59

Smith1234 - It is revisionist history to say Shogun was shot when he fought Jones.

Before the fight, people laughed at Jon saying "champ 2011" and said he has no chance. Immediately after, they said something was wrong, he was off, he is shot, etc.

Something was off, getting blasted and your doors blown off in a complete shutout / blowout will tend to make you look off.

Having said that, Shogun is top 3 all time at LHW. I'm not discrediting him, in fact I am saying Jones beating a superb fighter like Shogun in the manner he did is mind bottling. Phone Post 3.0

Yup. He went from "No Chance" to BREAKING Shogun...his will and his body...made him tap to strikes. Nuts.

60

Wiggy -


Shit - I didn't know ShoeMoney was a UGer.  Cool to see.



As for the OP:



Styles make fights, not the org, but ring or cage and different rule sets also come into play when breaking fights down



^this

Lol rly? Phone Post 3.0