its really simple guys, ANY unknown who asks for comparison between judo/bjj sends up a red flag on this forum given the past history..this does not in any way mean that those questions are not welcomed..far from it...it just gets a sometimes some undue attention..
so like i stated, lead by example...question answered and opinions expressed...
move on to next question please...
Why? Cause among other things Resnick is the keeper of the gate If this sounds like I'm sticking up for Josh Resnick it's because I am. If someone comes on this forum asking how to get around the rules in a judo tournament, well yes, he should be set straight in no uncertain terms and Resnick is usually the one who is up for the task. It's not an anti-BJJ bias; it's his passion for judo. There are better ranked players that visit the forum and I'm guessing, many with higher dans but nobody that I know of with a bigger heart.
LOL at threatening to burn Wayland's book.
At least he's giving you a free plug Wayland :)
Josh, I've been thinking about this for a while. I know this strongly suggests I take this forum too seriously, but what the hell else can I do while I'm in bed at 3 am and waiting for the baby to wake up?
This may sound kind of crazy, but here goes.
I bet that I could go to a tournament, say, an E level tournament (Sensei Memorial, for example) or senior nationals (Masters or Senior Division), and get away with simply trying to do ne waza the entire event, and NOT get penalized out of any single match.
My effort would involve no effort at all to throw for ippon, just try to enter matwork skillfully enough to avoid losing on penalties, or hopefully even getting any stalling or false attack penalties.
Now, we both know I wouldn't have any chance of winning the event, maybe I could win a match or two depending on my draw.
To do this seriously, I'd have to be in very good shape, which, of course I am not do to my fatherly responsibilities. However, I could definitly train very well technically for such a strategy.
Of course, this isn't necesarily a very good strategy given either the current state of the interpretation of the rules or the current state of the level of understanding of the rules by many referees. But it IS possible.
So, the question asked by the guy was a viable one technically.
I agree that you certainly gave good advice regarding learning Judo, how to fall, etc. I also know you could care less about said "validation" of your post.
I'd have no qualms against entering a BJJ tournament myself, without ever having set foot in a BJJ dojo or had a single BJJ training session. As long as I knew the rules, I'd be OK. I know how to tap, and am not shy about doing so to protect myself, and well, I don't think I 'd have to worry about getting my neck snapped! Neither would I just try to win on takedowon points, that is not in the spirit of BJJ or it's rules.
However, to try to win by matwork alone IS within the spririt (and rules) of Judo. Not wise maybe, but kosher for sure.
Anyway, the guy didn't ask a stupid question in my opinion, ignorant maybe, but hey, that's why we ask questions, because we are ignorant about a subject.
Ben R.
"yes. it was. some people, a mod included, are just too damn thin skinned. like i said.. im calling bullshit."
Who, me or Wayland.
Josh, if the guy who asked the question had come up to you at a Judo tournament, and asked the question to your face, would you have answered the question in the same tone as you wrote, and then told him to go away?
If so, at least you are consistent, but sadly mistaken.
By bullshit, do you mean you think it was a troll post?
Ben R.
". If someone comes on this forum asking how to get around the rules in a judo tournament, well yes, he should be set straight in no uncertain terms and Resnick is usually the one who is up for the task. "
Interesting, but it's not against the rules of Judo to enter groundwork without attempting a throw first.
Now, I take "pulling guard" to mean just that. Not necessarily butt flopping, but trying to get into ne waza legally without really trying to throw.
I believe in trying to get clarification on a question if there is ambiguity. Reaming somebody and telling them to go away afterwards because you intuit there purpose, skill level, whatever, is uncalled for.
BTW, I agree with most of what Josh said, although I think he could have said it better, but telling the guy to go away was not warranted.
I admire Josh a lot, respect him, and root for him whenever I see him compete. If there were an Olympics for heart and desire, he'd have won a gold many times over.
But I'll for sure not let how I feel about him keep me from telling him I think he was out of line.
Ben Reinhardt
clown..yes i would have liked more pics in the book, but it is a scientific training reference, rather than technique..as far as burning it, go ahead, just be sure to purchase some more ;-)
as far as this debate or issue is concerned if a thread is deleted or moved, just ask why...fyi, the 3 mods on here do not contact each other something goes down, in fact, we often come on here and look on the thread just like you..
look, josh's point was his personal expression of how he finds it offensive for bjj'ers to sandbag a junior level or elementary judo competition and then come and brag about it to the world..that was his objection..this has clearly happened here before and is a commn fishing ground fertile of bait fish..
THAT IS NOT TO SAY WHAT THE POSTER WAS PLANNING TO DO BUT RATHER WHY JOSH RESISTED THE QUESTION..
so, NEXT TIME this comes up, and it will, a suggestion to josh might be "could you please explain or clarify why you are asking this question? or what is your purpose in knowing this?"..then he can choose whether to answer or not...
we all have a responsiblilty to monitor our own posts and be fair to all involved with questions and comments whether we agree or disagree..we DO NOT have to support personal attacks/threats or condescending comments by anyone..
fwiw IMO josh, i think ben is getting a lot put on his shoulders, he has always been fair and supportive of every member..and ben, joshua resnick is an extremely passionate person who makes little of small talk and tells it exactly how he sees it...like our good friend walt..these are true mentors in the judo world
Ben Reinhardt: The situation you are describing actually happens on many an occassion. There is a pretty good player out of...well, let's not say where he is from, but he has fashioned himself a "newaza specialist". He purposefully only attempts Sumi Gaesh, Yoko Tomoe Nage, Tomoe Nage, Obi Tori Gaeshi and occassionally Yoko Otoshi.
He has even stated out of his own mouth "I don't think I've thrown 20 people my whole Judo career for Ippon, but I'm getting closer!". He knows his JUDO and uses it effectively. He has NEVER studied BJJ,WBCJJ, Sambo or Submission Wrestling, but he is damn good in newaza and knows a tremendous amount of tricks down there. He claims to have studied in Japan as he was a military brat. I say claims because I have only know him about 8 years and I don't know a whole lot about his past.
Now, is what he doing ineffective, weak or is it just his Judo? I believe there was a decent Judo man named Nagaoka who was know for his sutemi waza(ended up being 10th dan). That was his Judo.
Seek could end up developing a ferocious Kashiwazaki like Yoko Tomoe Nage and being a phenomenal Judoist, but he does need us(Judo) to help him build on his Judo. He could start doing more Judo and end up throwing the sickest Ouchi Gari we've ever seen, but none of us will ever know this if we push him away from Judo. Not trying to overstate our importance in his decision about Judo, just trying to make an example.
Jarvis
"you can pull the head, so long as you are pulling it DOWN (chin to chest) and do not enter the mask area of the face. pulling the head in the direction of the spine is illegal as its dangerous and can cause sever injury."
Does this mean that is IS legal to pull down on the head during a sankaku to finish the choke? Or do you mean pulling the head towards the mat, ala trying to keep someone close to you in your guard by holding("pulling") the back of their head into your chest?
Thought id ask.... and nice to change topic every once in a while ;)
newfie,
let me give you an example... easier this way.
you are in guard. you got the sangakyu locked in, taking the choke but its going slowly. you can absolutley reach up with your hands (one or both), grab the back of uke's head and pull it down. you can even pull the damn thing down as hard as you can and keep it there becuase there is no honest way that injury will be caused.
i know some people prefer to grab their own shin or pant leg instead becuase sometimes the head is slippery.. either way, its all perfectly legal.
now.. as for the other issue going on here.
yes, Ben has a lot on his shoulders. fine, accepted. yet so do i and so do a ton of others here. im going to continue posting in the fashion i have become accustomed to and thats all there is to it. im not mark tripp and never have i said my word is golden or even bonded.. its just my word and thats all it has to be.
too many people here, IMO, are too thin-skinned and too bad becuase ive never been one to cater to that.
i saw the guys post the way i saw it. others did or didnt. either way i really dont give a damn. i still gave him an honest answer on the rules of the sport.
hell, even he and i had a bit of a chickle about it after and wished eachother well.. so, why donesnt everybody else just learn to back the hell up and leave it be already..? its dead, resolved and over.. has been for some time.
what bugs me is that Ben sure as shit wanted to bring it into other threads and that was in no way called for from a mod. it was just plain sad to see.
but. who cares. im done checking this thread. go ahead and continue tlaking shit behind my back becuase im sure itll happen.
Wow...I'm not really sure how this thread ended up like this, but I thought there was some good discussion and advice being given.
Ben: I think you do a great job.
Resnick: It's all good.
Jarvis
"Does this mean that is IS legal to pull down on the head during a sankaku to finish the choke? Or do you mean pulling the head towards the mat, ala trying to keep someone close to you in your guard by holding("pulling") the back of their head into your chest?"
Either one is OK as long as you are not twisting their head or make it look like an attempt at some sort of neck crank.
Ben R.
"what bugs me is that Ben sure as shit wanted to bring it into other threads and that was in no way called for from a mod. it was just plain sad to see. "
I was just trying to demonstrate my sense of humor, Josh.
Like I said, my only problem with anything you said was that you told the guy to go away.
Is that clear now?
Ben R.
The triangle clarification is also helpful. I had been avoiding pulling on the head as I was under the (mistaken) impression that this was illegal. I guess I'm getting paranoid on the legality of things!
estanmilko: I've had refs call matte and warn me for it so on a lower level it will depend on the reffing...imo.
Jarvis
I was going to make that point as well Jarvis. When you're on the edge of the rules you are at the mercy of the knowledge of whoever is reffing on that given day.
I'm glad I take the time to read these posts, because I was under the impression I couldn't pull the head that way in judo too. Good to know.
Just curious ... how would pulling the head down (chin to chest) help with the choke? Isn't the ideal position to be almost perpendicular to uke ... his head would be leaning to his side instead?
it helps because when you have their arm folded across your stomach(and under their throat), it pushes their throat down into their arm as well as tightening the pressure on their arteries since it gets tighter all around.