I much prefer five minute rounds.
i didn't say they were his fans because of the rules he's fighting under, i just pointed out that it wasn't the rules he fights under that got him fans.
you guys are acting like all of a sudden there's no competition because a few techniques became prohibited.
i still haven't seen a single real reason why it doesn't work, just a lot of annoying crying and talk about "budo" and "bushido", and a bunch of other bullshit that has about as much to do with round scoring as it does the price of tea in china.
greedy? really? they outlawed these techniques to line their pockets? dude, i hate to tell you this, but THEY ALREADY OWN PRIDE. THEY CAN'T OWN IT ANY MORE THAN THEY ALREADY DO. THEY CAN'T OWN IT TWICE. as you pointed out, and as your behavior evidences, there's bound to be some crying about this that isn't going to be making them any money, but what it is doing is making a codified set of universal rules that can be applied to what is now a standardized sport anywhere in the free world. again, they don't get to use their hands in english soccer. get a fucking grip. if you're such a sad panda, watch rotr and enjoy lesser athletes and competitiors get it on using fewer rules. or watch felony fights, and watch fat schlubs get it on with no rules at all.
I appreciate you not pansying about with your thoughts Dahosse. It gets tiring skirting around issues to avoid stupid and over the top trolling retribution from nuthuggers.
"or watch felony fights, and watch fat schlubs get it on with no rules at all."
Not a fan at all.
Greedy isn't the word I should have used, but you clearly weren't much of a pride fan to begin with judging by your post. It's not about "less rules" or even the 10 minute round for me. By adding elbows and taking away the kicks and knees they change the dynamic and the strategy of the fight completely. I watched both cause I loved both, I don't need them melted into one type of fight sport.
"but what it is doing is making a codified set of universal rules that can be applied to what is now a standardized sport anywhere in the free world."
COMPLETELY unnecessary, I view Pride and UFC's rule differences like the subtle variances in the rules of Muay Thai kickboxing rules, Oriental style kickboxing rules, and San Shou rules.
It's all kickboxing, but it's not all the same thing. You could have the same 2 fighters fight once in each of those three styles of kickboxing and depending on their strengths and the rule sets the outcomes of each fight could be wildly different.
Just like in Pride and UFC.
American KB v Muay Thai KB IMO
i just don't get it.
i am really failing to pick up what they're putting down.
boxing has way limited rules of engagement, but it's still entertaining to watch when two guys are putting on a good fight.
they can't grapple in k-1, but same thing.
so a few things got dropped along the way- i didn't hear many pride fans crying when guys like coleman couldn't sit in a closed guard and pound knots all over their opponent's and their own face with headbutts.
and if you recall, the main reason they insituted rounds in the first place was that EVERY SINGLE FIGHT that didn't end quickly became this really sluggish, straggling exhaustion-fest after the first few minutes. round breaks give the guys a chance to get their wind back and execute clean technique.
yeah, it's not a real fight, but as was stated about 10,000x by the old-school martial artists from back when, before they all got fed up and left, it's not a real fight anyways. when they start having the fighters compete in the alley behind the venue on top of concrete and broken glass, with some rotten chicken juice leaking out of a busted trash bag next to them, THEN it's a real fight, and about 10,000x less interesting to watch, to boot.
do you think shogun would be an interesting fighter to watch if he got taken down off every flying kick he threw and then he had to work the next 30 minutes to get out of a closed guard while some guy hacks at his kidneys and neck royce gracie style?
i don't.
some people just don't have any appreciation for what they have.
me- man, this is some good ice cream.
them- yeah, but if it was in a waffle cone with sprinkles, it'd be soooo much BETTER.
well, you don't have a waffle cone. they're out of waffle cones. so eat your ice cream and shut the fuck up.
ugh. i can't reason with you people.
yes, it IS necessary. the rules have to be interchangable, so that when they have cross-over matches, nobody has unfair advantage.
"well, just have them compete seperately, so that if they want to be unified champ, they have to win under all rule sets."
that sounds great, except how's that supposed to work? mma is a hurting game, you have a guy win the ufc belt, and then go win the pride belt, what if he breaks his hand fedor-style? now he's out, and holding both belts hostage.
"well, how's that different if they have unified rules?"
it means they can win both belts at the same time, in either event, because the rules are unified.
it takes less fights to hold all the belts if they're using the same rules sets.
next, i'll teach you how to tie your shoes- first, one lace over the other, and pull it through, next, make some bunny ears...
"well, who wants a unfied champ in all weight classes?"
everybody but you, sancho.
"well, you don't have a waffle cone."
And the only reason I don't is cause they were suddenly ruled illegal.
And I really don't understand why you're still talking so much about the rounds in a post that seems mainly addressed to me when I've already made it clear that the round isn't the issue to me.
If the Japanese want to watch the UFC, they can, it's already on ppv over there. But by making Pride simply a carbon copy of the UFC with a different name they are fucking off a loyal Japanese audience and losing a huge fanbase. It's all about options, and we now have one less.
and as for me not being a pride fan, i guess not.
i'm a fight fan. as i've said about 10,000x times- i like it all. i watch the ufc, ifl, amateur wrestling, judo, the wcl, whatever. i watch re-runs of old k-1 fights i've already seen on espn2 just because they're on.
in fact, i'm about to go watch a replay of jor calzaghe beating the piss out of peter manfredo jr. on hob indemand, just because i can.
does that make me less of an mma fan than you? i don't think so, but probably your opinion differs.
"oh, if you watch all that, you're not REALLY into REAL vale tudo."
homie, i've seen old-school vale tudo, and it's unfortunate to say this, but despite its reality, it has probably the least visual appeal of all fighting sports on subsequent rewatching.
plus, think about how bad some of the old-school vale tudo guys got owned when they started fighting better athletes.
hugo duarte was a vale-tudo legend, and he got blasted apart by tank "mr. .500" abbott in about 10 seconds.
eugenio tadeau was a big name in vale tudo, and he took one of the worst beatings of all time against mikey burnette, a guy that the sport has unfortunately passed by.
don frye is king of the has-beens, but he made amaury bitteti his lady, and donny boy just got owned by james freakin' thompson, king of the "intimidating-looking" tomato cans.
bottom line, being more like a real sport means we get better athletes to participate, better athletes make for better, more skillful fights. if we can't agree on that, we can't agree on anything.
it's not about the rounds, it's about unified rules.
unified rules = unified titles.
that's it. i will say no more. if you don't want to help foster a situation where we can have one champ per weight class, then rock on with your bad self. they still put on vale tudo matches in brazil using local talent. have fun watching a bunch of pudgy luta livre guys bloody each other up inside a closed guard.
I think the difference between a 10 minute round and two 5 minute rounds is not that big in terms of somehow diminishing the ability to hold cross-over matches. If you train for one, you really shouldn't be too far off the other. The only real difference is determining when you can hold on for dear life and pray for the round to end. It does mess with the scoring, and that would have to be worked out.
I like the 10 minute round, and will miss it when its gone, but I think in general fans of fight sports are used to rounds 5 minutes and less, and will probably prefer these.
"i'm a fight fan. as i've said about 10,000x times- i like it all. i watch the ufc, ifl, amateur wrestling, judo, the wcl, whatever. i watch re-runs of old k-1 fights i've already seen on espn2 just because they're on."
Same here. Do you know why I watch ALL that, cause it's all different, and it's all entertaining to me.
""well, who wants a unfied champ in all weight classes?"
everybody but you, sancho."
I don't think that even matters because it'll never happen. Yeah, if you want a unified champ between UFC and Pride it would. But there are so many mma organizations out there now that it'd be just about impossible. It's hard enough to stay champion in one organization due to the way that (in this sport in particular) styles make fights.
"they still put on vale tudo matches in brazil using local talent. have fun watching a bunch of pudgy luta livre guys bloody each other up inside a closed guard."
Not a big fan. There are only a few old vale tudo events that I'll rewatch now adays.
"bottom line, being more like a real sport means we get better athletes to participate, better athletes make for better, more skillful fights."
I agree with that.
if the ufc and pride are the wbo and wbc of mma, then if a guy holds both belts, he's world champ.
there is no third party that has enough depth of talent to become a ibf or whatever. bodog is cute, but jumping a win-some/lose-some middleweight contender into a title shot with the heavyweight champ doesn't make me respect you as a sporting agency.
k-1 is cute, but they don't have enough events to build talent or develop contenders.
this may not be ideal, and i'm not saying it is- but it's what we've got, and it's pretty good. i think the incredible lack of appreciation for the strides mma has made in such a short time is completely ridiculous.
again, you're crying about sprinkles when someone hands you some ice cream.
you say you're sad because of the lack of variety, but the variety still exists, it's just that instead of using the best ingredients available to make their ice cream, they're using some shit that was originally a by-product of cheese manufacture.
rotr still exists. vale tudo in brazil still exists. finn free fights still exist.
pride went under on their own merits, the fertittas just bought it up and brought it into their fold. nobody said you had to be on fire with excitement with the format changes, but if you like to watch high-level competition, you SHOULD be excited that the best fighters don't have mma's own great wall standing between them.
"if the ufc and pride are the wbo and wbc of mma, then if a guy holds both belts, he's world champ.
there is no third party that has enough depth of talent to become a ibf or whatever. bodog is cute, but jumping a win-some/lose-some middleweight contender into a title shot with the heavyweight champ doesn't make me respect you as a sporting agency.
k-1 is cute, but they don't have enough events to build talent or develop contenders."
I agree with all that for now, but sooner than later at least one of these other orgs are going to be too large to ignore. Whether it's Showtime's event, Bodog, Strikeforce, or some other org that pops up with the financial backing.
"We are heading towards unified rules in our sport. But one door closes, another opens.
The simple fact is that we are the only sport with radically differing rules, and that can't last for ever."
So why on earth do the unified rules have to be WRONG?
"unified" is NOT the problem here...
"As if any of you know what the Japanese fans want."
Clearly they want change, they always hated Pride events as was evidenced by the small venue's that were constantly empty. And the few people that would go to Pride events were so drunk that they just boo'd the insanely boring fights whole time. It was a shit promotion and never had one exciting fight that I can think of. :/
reasonmethis:
I am so fucking sick of "member from 2007" PAID BASHERS defending EVERYTHING that the UFC stands for.
Kirik: since you posted on this thread and have probably seen my other threads about this...is there SOME reason you and your mods do NOTHING about this obvious epidemic consuming your forum? Or are you just happy to have more page views?
^ Pot meet kettle.