I just finish watching Ewan Beaton's Judo instructional.
He says that when fighting righties you have to get the sleeve grip FIRST. When fighting lefties you have to get the lapel grip FIRST.
I can easily get the lapel grip when fighting lefties.
It's hard to get the sleeve grip when I fight against righties.
I would like some tips on getting the sleeve against righties and what to do if you can't get the sleeve grip.
Also, any tips on grip fighting would be great.
Any judo instructionals that deals on gripping?
Yeah the book Grips by Neil Adams.
It's hard because they want your sleeve first, too, at least if they know what they are doing.
Here are the basics I know/do.
First thing, if you are fighting a righty, and you are a righty, then you need to lead off in a left hand stance.
Stop looking at me like that, I'm not stupid!
This way, your RIGHT sleeve is more protected from their attack.
First scenario: He just stands there with his right hand forward like an idiot. You grab it with BOTH hands at his wrist, push it down and across between you, and maybe move a bit to your left, and secure a double grip (no slack) somewhere between his elbow and forearm, or, under his elbow. It's very important that you get a double grip, with no slack. Once you have that grip, hold it down, off of your lapel, or at least low on you lapel, to where his hand is BELOW the level of his shoulder. Reach up and grab his lapel with your right hand, move, and attack.
Second scenario: He GRABS at your right lapel with his right hand. Being right handed, most righties want grab you with your strongest hand first. You catch his wrist with BOTH your hands, secure the double grip with your left while pushing down and across as described in scenario 1. Then grab his left lapel with your right hand.
Third Scenario: He grabs your left lapel with his right hand. Cut the grip, and control his sleeve, grab his lapel above.
Cuttign the lapel grip: There are different methods for this. Neil Adams describes some in his book on kumi kata (Ippon Books). Basic is to grab his wrist with both hands and push straight up/forwards very hard.
Another is to secure the double sleeve grip with your left hand while holding his wrist with your right hand, palm down, thumb inside. You then push down and a little out while while kind of scooting your hips back. This is VERY difficult to describe to say the least. The point is to use your whole body to help break the grip. Note that you do not have to totally break the grip, just slide it down to where is it below his shoulder level and you control his sleeve.
If it is a high lapel grip, secure a double grip with your left hand, shrug you shoulder to trap his hand between your shoulder and neck. You can grab his wrist with your right hand too, now, turn quickly to to your right while pushing his hand off. This will usually break his grip and may hurt (not injure) his wrist. It's a favorite of mine because they are usually pretty cautions about grabbing me that way again.
Ben R.
Continued:
Once you have your grip, switch your stance to right hand, move and attack.
Another common attack is the cross grip sleeve feed. In this case, you are disengaged, and you reach across with your right hand and catch his right sleeve, pull it down/across and to your left hand, securing the double grip. I use this one a lot.
Once you get the sleeve, you can do the following to help get his lapel or move for an attack.
1. Push the sleeve strongly across his body, then when he pushes back, go with the motion and move diagonally to your left rear, and grab his lapel. You could also do a one handed grip attack such as Ippon Seoi, Kouchi Gari, or a sleeve only Tai Otoshi attack, or any number of ankle/knee/crotch pick attacks. You can also do some diversionary ashi waza and use the gap in his attention to grab his lapel, move, and attack.
2.) Push strongly across again, move diagonally to the left rear and get a same side grip (you right hand on his right lapel). You can do a Kata Eri Morote Seoi attack, Kouchi, Osoto, even a Yoko Tomoe Nage. Remember the 3-5 sec. rule about attacking with a same side grip, though. You can also just use it as a diversion and get his left lapel.
Another method: Grab his right lapel with your left (lead) hand. This is trickier. A lot of guys will grab your sleeve. At that point, let go of his lapel, and grab his sleeve, secure the double grip, pushing down with both hands. Again, move a bit to your left so it is harder for him to attack. I don't suggest you do this to a lefty, as you will have given him your sleeve after he cuts your grip!
Other guys will reach for an inside lapel grip with their right hand (this is probably more common). At that point, you do the same thing as in the scenario where he grabs at your lapel and gets it, you cut the lapel grip and control the sleeve, then move on with getting the lapel as described above. Be careful, as some guys (like me) have a very good left ippon seoi from the lapel grip. That is one reason you need to move a bit to your left, so you are not so squared up to your opponent.
Don't sit still for long, whatever you do, and try to make you angle good while making his angle bad for an attack. He will be trying to grip you too and throw as well.
Ben R.
Finally, you can take the round about approach and do the cross-lapel feed grip first, then move to his sleeve. This does open other types of attack for you "off the grip", i.e., with only one hand on the guy either initially or throughout the whole attack.
In this case, reach across with your left hand, and grab his left lapel fairly low. Pull it out and feed it into our right hand.
You can do this and circle to your right and pull him strongly and then catch his sleeve, or, just stand there (not reccomended, but can be OK if you have a big reach advantage).
You an attack with Ouchi, Kouchi, Harai, Uchi Mata, Seoi, Tai Otoshi, etc., as he is circling to your right (think Uchi Mata in Nage No Kata), as that is a standard attack pattern/setup in Judo, he is circling towards your lapel (tsurite/power hand) grip.
If you are really ambitious, you can go for the over the back grip and work that way, especially if you are taller. That is getting more advanced though.
Ben R.
Grips is one of the things (maybe the only thing?) I do well at.
I stand lefty and block my right lapel by "feeding" my left elbow. Think of the Joe Frazier/George Foreman defense.
This makes the other guy want to grab at your left sleeve or reach over/under to grab at your lapel.
I reach under his extended arm and get the double grip. From here, pretty much what Ben says.
Or I stand there, lefty, inviting the straight forward lapel grab. As soon as he extends his arm to grab I intercept and take the double grip.
righties..
*shudder*
freaks!
"oops, sorry. "
For what? Giving decent advice?
Ben R.
"First thing, if you are fighting a righty, and you are a righty, then you need to lead off in a left hand stance.
Stop looking at me like that, I'm not stupid!"
Is this common in olympic/world judo? Left hand stance first then right hand stance once you get your grips.
Ewan Beaton says that if you are a righty then you have to fight with your right leg forward all the time.
I already have the book on grips by Neil Adams.
i wouldnt stick my left leg forawrd cuz you could get stickered, plus if your opponent knows anything he will simply grab the lapel with his left hand first.
Do I only have 3-5 secs if I ONLY have the cross grip?
yeah but thats the wrong idea. after you cross grip your still gana have to let go and you will end up with your right hand on first again.
Yuko - Thanks. Does everyone at JMJC have the "Jason Morris sticker" in their repertoire?
"NO ben , i could just tell from the first part of what you wrote that you were on the right track . all good big fella. "
Thanks, but sometimes it seems like you are carrying a conversation with someone else other than me.
I directed my comment to allcloser, is that what you are referring to?
Ben R.
"Ben Reinhardt,
I said "sorry" for MY breaking in between your posts above, which I was very impressed with by the way. I thought nobody was answering uhimatafan.
I apologize if I have confused you in any manner"
Huh, what are you talking about? Man, I get more respect here than I do at home, no wonder I spend so much time here!
Ben R.
""First thing, if you are fighting a righty, and you are a righty, then you need to lead off in a left hand stance.
Stop looking at me like that, I'm not stupid!"
"Is this common in olympic/world judo? Left hand stance first then right hand stance once you get your grips."
I don't know, there are a lot of different styles and approaches used in Olympic/World level Judo. At that level, whatever you do, you need to do it very well.
I've just shown one of many methods that is fundamentally sound and works well.
"Ewan Beaton says that if you are a righty then you have to fight with your right leg forward all the time."
Note that I said you switch your stance after securing the grip. After you have the grip, you switch to a right stance.
Ben R.
"I already have the book on grips by Neil Adams. "
Good, it shows some nice stuff, but is by no means exhaustive.
Ben R.
Thanks Ben.
What stance should I have first if I'm fighting a lefty?
"i wouldnt stick my left leg forawrd cuz you could get stickered, plus if your opponent knows anything he will simply grab the lapel with his left hand first. "
That's a decent point, Yuko. However, you don't stick it too far forward, and you don't put all the weight on it. It is a normal "hidari shizentai" stance, not a super-sideways radical one.
Do you mean a cross grip, his left on your left, or his left on your right?
If he is in a right stance, he will have to reach pretty far to get the right lapel, if he grabs the left lapel, you cut the grip and go from there.
If he if he does the cross grip feed for the lapel, which can happen very quickly, and gets the left lapel, you cut it and move from there.
There are all sorts of variations and sequences that can happen, and do happen.
So how do you approach the problem of getting the sleeve, Yuko?
Ben R.